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We can still stop California's 3D printer surveillance scheme

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Re: We can still stop California's 3D printer surveillance scheme

#81

Post by wat10000 »

Joker_vD wrote: post #62
wat10000 wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why would a state enforce federal law?

The US legal system never ceases to amaze me. Why indeed should a state enforce a law? Like, one of those anti-discrimination laws?

Why should it enforce a law from a separate sovereign entity, is the question. And the answer is, it shouldn’t. I don’t think states do, or should, enforce federal anti-discrimination laws. The feds do that. The states pass their own anti-discrimination laws if they want something to enforce themselves.

Re: We can still stop California's 3D printer surveillance scheme

#82

Post by SpicyLemonZest »

simoncion wrote: post #79
SpicyLemonZest wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We used to ban the undesirable action! Then DEFCAD got that ban overturned, convincing the federal government that they have a First Amendment right to publish 3D-printable firearm plans. So now our choices are to allow widespread 3D printed firearms (which I and many others won't accept) or restrict the means by which they can be made. I genuinely do wish the DEFCAD folks had made different choices that would not ha…

> ...our choices are to allow widespread 3D printed firearms... Which parts of a firearm can be printed in a consumer-grade 3D printer? Be as specific as your knowledge permits. Of those that cannot, how much money does one have to spend in order to purchase a 3D printer that is capable of printing those parts that cannot be printed by a consumer-grade printer? Are you aware of "slam fire" firearms? If you were not,…

I'm aware of "slam fire" firearms and know why and how it's easy to produce them. They're much less concerning to me because their rate of fire is extremely slow.

I don't know the details of what can be printed in a consumer-grade printer, not having performed firearms manufacturing myself, but I've seen things claiming to be pretty complete kits and it seems to me that most components should be possible. Barrels of any reasonable length might be hard, perhaps firing pins too. (And springs, but of course those are trivial to manufacture by hand.) If it's not actually possible to 3D print an effective gun, perhaps someone should make that argument in detail.

Re: We can still stop California's 3D printer surveillance scheme

#83

Post by jcgrillo »

deet wrote: post #10

Imagine if you couldn't buy a lathe unless it refused to make a baseball bat (which could be used for hitting people). Or if you couldn't buy scissors (because they could cut brake lines). Or if you couldn't buy a car (because it could be used to run someone over). And if all of those checked with the government before functioning. It's almost like maybe instead you should just ban the undesirable end action, enforce…

You can make all of those things. First you pick up two sticks and rub them together real good (maybe use the inner bark of a hickory tree or similar to make some cordage s.t. you can make a bow drill and rub them even better.. you may find cottonwood to your liking but I did it with green maple when I was 11 so if you can't lmao look inwards). Using the little coal you've created, build a fire. Now pile a bunch of wood on it and starve it for oxygen. Great, you've created charcoal. Now skin a big animal and make bellows from its hide. Now build a big fire and blast it with the bellows to make it rull friggen hot. Put some rocks in it that have iron in them. Collect the iron from the bottom of the fire (exercise left to the reader) into a stone tub. Build a few forms using wood, sand, and wax in the shapes of the various parts a lathe. Melt the iron in the stone tub and pour it into the forms. Scrape the mating surfaces of the lathe parts flat and clean with a hard stone.

They cannot take this shit away. It's futile.

Re: We can still stop California's 3D printer surveillance scheme

#84

Post by jcgrillo »

simoncion wrote: post #79
SpicyLemonZest wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We used to ban the undesirable action! Then DEFCAD got that ban overturned, convincing the federal government that they have a First Amendment right to publish 3D-printable firearm plans. So now our choices are to allow widespread 3D printed firearms (which I and many others won't accept) or restrict the means by which they can be made. I genuinely do wish the DEFCAD folks had made different choices that would not ha…

> ...our choices are to allow widespread 3D printed firearms... Which parts of a firearm can be printed in a consumer-grade 3D printer? Be as specific as your knowledge permits. Of those that cannot, how much money does one have to spend in order to purchase a 3D printer that is capable of printing those parts that cannot be printed by a consumer-grade printer? Are you aware of "slam fire" firearms? If you were not,…

You don't need to print anything, just visit your neighborhood hardware store

Re: We can still stop California's 3D printer surveillance scheme

#85

Post by gdiamos »

My kindergartner has a 3D printer.

I got a call from the school principal. She said “another parent called and said your son 3D printed a gun and brought it to school”.

I looked at the print history. It was a tiny toy mandalorian figurine holding a blaster pistol in his hand.

I bought my son a bigger 3D printer and told him to stop playing with that boy.

Re: We can still stop California's 3D printer surveillance scheme

#86

Post by rolph »

WillPostForFood wrote: post #64
rolph wrote: post #2

guess what, the state of california on the printer bed, depicted in the article, looks close to the profile of an AR15 pistol grip. im looking forward to the idea that the outline of Ca. may trigger false positives

It looks even closer to a California banned "large-capacity" magazine. https://dpmsinc.com/media/catalog/product/cache/7217d38013ee...

now that would be a curious looking AR15 with a california pistol grip, and a california magazine

Re: We can still stop California's 3D printer surveillance scheme

#87

Post by trinsic2 »

asveikau wrote: post #33
jatora wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

From what I know about legislators (I am a longtime SF resident but I am also a DC native and have known some congressional staff over the years), it is pretty rare that informed constituents write to them in a cogent and authentic voice about specific legislation, and they do pay attention to this. Calls may work even more. It won't work all the time and how much they do will depend on the issue and why they are sup…

Alright, you won me over. I emailed my congressman from the EFF website with my own message. That's the best I can do right now. I just feel like politics is a losing battle. If its taken over by special interests and there doesn't seem like there is any end in sight, as it gets easier and easier for them to sway the people that are actually suppose to be working for us. What is the point? When we are combating legislation that no sane person should have to deal with there comes a time where the whole thing is unlawful and it we should stop investing our power into it.

Re: We can still stop California's 3D printer surveillance scheme

#88

Post by jstanley »

SpicyLemonZest wrote: post #60
deet wrote: post #10

Imagine if you couldn't buy a lathe unless it refused to make a baseball bat (which could be used for hitting people). Or if you couldn't buy scissors (because they could cut brake lines). Or if you couldn't buy a car (because it could be used to run someone over). And if all of those checked with the government before functioning. It's almost like maybe instead you should just ban the undesirable end action, enforce…

We used to ban the undesirable action! Then DEFCAD got that ban overturned, convincing the federal government that they have a First Amendment right to publish 3D-printable firearm plans. So now our choices are to allow widespread 3D printed firearms (which I and many others won't accept) or restrict the means by which they can be made. I genuinely do wish the DEFCAD folks had made different choices that would not ha…

> We used to ban the undesirable action!

The undesirable action is shooting people, right? That's still banned.

It seems like you think the undesirable action is publishing plans for machines you don't want people to have.

Re: We can still stop California's 3D printer surveillance scheme

#89

Post by DropkickM16 »

narrator wrote: post #36

We're bombing Iran to suppress technology form the 40s. We're suppressing advanced AI. We're suppressing 3d printer technology. Then there are the encryption wars. Control of advanced technology, not just weapons, is a larger and larger battle every year. When the robots get here, you'll need the governments ok to do anything at all with a robot. Mark Andreessen's comments that government regulators told him that the…

[flagged]

Re: We can still stop California's 3D printer surveillance scheme

#90

Post by knowaveragejoe »

DropkickM16 wrote: post #89
narrator wrote: post #36

We're bombing Iran to suppress technology form the 40s. We're suppressing advanced AI. We're suppressing 3d printer technology. Then there are the encryption wars. Control of advanced technology, not just weapons, is a larger and larger battle every year. When the robots get here, you'll need the governments ok to do anything at all with a robot. Mark Andreessen's comments that government regulators told him that the…

[flagged]

And he wouldn't stop and reflect on why it's happening, either. That's like, weak or slow or something.
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