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I'm dialing back my LLM usage

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Re: I'm dialing back my LLM usage

#181

Post by guluarte »

mekoka wrote: post #141
jm4 wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you described it much more succinctly than most people do. It's been my exact experience as well. The LLM can develop much faster than I can build a mental model. It's very easy to get to a point where you don't know what's going on, a bunch of bugs have been introduced and you can't easily fix them or refactor because you're essentially the new guy on your own project. I find myself adjusting by committing c…

> because you're essentially the new guy on your own project. Wow! Lol. One sentence to rule them all.

and the problem is the LLM is also the new guy on the next prompt lmao, the guy(LLM) that wrote the original code is long gone

Re: I'm dialing back my LLM usage

#182

Post by photonthug »

exceptione wrote: post #157
sunrunner wrote: post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm compelled to make sure any comment mentioning Conway's Law has a reply linking the following video (and perhaps I should create a bot to do this): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5IUj1EZwpJY This analysis of the real-world effects of Conway's Law seems deeply horrifying, because the implication seems to be that there's nothing you can do to keep communication efficiency and design quality high while also growing…

I think you better link to a good article instead. Good grief, what a horror . A talking head rambling on for 60 minutes. --- disclaimer: if low information density is your thing, then your mileage may vary. Video's are for documentaries, not for reading out an article in the camera.

> A talking head rambling on for 60 minutes.

And probably a few minutes of commercials too. I get the impression this is an emerging generational thing, but unless it's a recorded university course or a very interesting and reputable person.. no thanks. What is weird is that the instinct to prefer video seems motivated by laziness, and laziness is actually an adaptive thing to deal with information overload.. yet this noble impulse is clearly self-defeating in this circumstance. Why wait and/or click-through ads for something that's low-density in the first place, you can't search, etc.

Especially now that you can transcript the video and quickly get AI to clean it up into a post, creating/linking a video potentially telegraphs stuff like: nothing much to say but a strong desire to be in the spotlight / narcissism / an acquisitiveness for clicks / engagement. Patiently enduring infinite ads while you're pursuing educational goals and assuming others are willing to, or assuming other people are paying for ad-free just because you do, all telegraphs a lack of respect for the audience, maybe also a lack of self-respect. Nothing against OP or this video in particular. More like a PSA about how this might come across to other people, because I can't be the only person that feels this way.

Re: I'm dialing back my LLM usage

#183

Post by 65 »

LLMs require fuzzy input and are thus good for fuzzy output, mostly things like recommendations and options. I just do not see a scenario where fuzzy input can lead to absolute, opinionated output unless extremely simple and mostly done before already. Programming, design, writing, etc. all require opinions and an absolute output from the author to be quality.

Re: I'm dialing back my LLM usage

#184

Post by guluarte »

x187463 wrote: post #11

Am I spending too much time on HN or is every post/comment section filled with this same narrative? Basically, LLMs are exciting but they produce messy code for which the dev feels no ownership. Managing a codebase written by an LLM is difficult because you have not cognitively loaded the entire thing into your head as you do with code written yourself. They're okay for one-off scripts or projects you do not intend t…

LLMs are fine with small things, such as creating or refactoring a small function, adding logs, writing a test, etc. But developing entire features or whole applications is stupid, being statistical models, the more input you feed, the more errors they accumulate

Re: I'm dialing back my LLM usage

#185

Post by antonvs »

ymyms wrote: post #173
jm4 wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you described it much more succinctly than most people do. It's been my exact experience as well. The LLM can develop much faster than I can build a mental model. It's very easy to get to a point where you don't know what's going on, a bunch of bugs have been introduced and you can't easily fix them or refactor because you're essentially the new guy on your own project. I find myself adjusting by committing c…

One of my favorite ways to use AI is to get me started on things. I tend to drag my feet when starting something new, but LLMs can whip up something quick. Then I look at what it did and usually hate it. Maybe it structured the code in way that doesn't mesh with the way I think or it completely failed to use some new/esoteric library I rely on. That hate fuels me to just do the work myself. It's like the same trick a…

I do the same thing, except if I hate something, I just ask the LLM to fix it. I can usually get to a starting point I'm pretty happy with, then I take over.

After that, I may ask an LLM to write particular functions, giving it data types and signatures to guide it.

Re: I'm dialing back my LLM usage

#186

Post by antonvs »

reachableceo wrote: post #161
jm4 wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you described it much more succinctly than most people do. It's been my exact experience as well. The LLM can develop much faster than I can build a mental model. It's very easy to get to a point where you don't know what's going on, a bunch of bugs have been introduced and you can't easily fix them or refactor because you're essentially the new guy on your own project. I find myself adjusting by committing c…

“ I'm finding that developing prompts, managing context, controlling pace, staying organized and being able to effectively review the LLM's work are required skills for LLM-assisted coding “ Did you not need all these skills / approaches / frameworks for yourself / coding with a team? This is , I think, the key difference in those (such as myself) who find LLMs to massively increase velocity / quality / quantity of o…

> If someone wasn’t already a highly effective IC/manager/leader pre LLM, an LLM will simply accelerate how fast they crash into the dirt.

Quite the selling point.

Re: I'm dialing back my LLM usage

#187

Post by photonthug »

nico wrote: post #47
x187463 wrote: post #11

Am I spending too much time on HN or is every post/comment section filled with this same narrative? Basically, LLMs are exciting but they produce messy code for which the dev feels no ownership. Managing a codebase written by an LLM is difficult because you have not cognitively loaded the entire thing into your head as you do with code written yourself. They're okay for one-off scripts or projects you do not intend t…

> Managing a codebase written by an LLM is difficult because you have not cognitively loaded the entire thing into your head as you do with code written yourself This happens with any sufficiently big/old codebase. We can never remember everything, even if we wrote it ourselves I do agree with the sentiment and insight about the 2 branches of topics frequently seen lately on HN about AI-assisted coding Would really l…

> This happens with any sufficiently big/old codebase. We can never remember everything, even if we wrote it ourselves

The important thing about a codebase wasn't ever really size or age, but whether it was a planned architecture or grown organically. The same is true post-LLM. Want to put AI in charge of tool-smithing inconsequential little widgets that are blocking you? Fine. Want to put AI in charge of deciding your overall approach and structure? Maybe fine. Worst of all is to put the AI in charge of the former, only to find later that you handed over architectural decisions at some point and without really intending to.

Re: I'm dialing back my LLM usage

#188

Post by [deleted] »

noisy_boy wrote: post #29

I think they are making me more productive in achieving my targets and worse in my ability to program. They are exactly like steroids - bigger muscles fast but tons of side effects and everything collapses the moment you stop. Companies don't care because they are more concerned about getting to their targets fast instead of your health. Another harmful drug for our brain if consumed without moderation. I won't entir…

[deleted]

Re: I'm dialing back my LLM usage

#189

Post by sppfly »

x187463 wrote: post #11

Am I spending too much time on HN or is every post/comment section filled with this same narrative? Basically, LLMs are exciting but they produce messy code for which the dev feels no ownership. Managing a codebase written by an LLM is difficult because you have not cognitively loaded the entire thing into your head as you do with code written yourself. They're okay for one-off scripts or projects you do not intend t…

> Managing a codebase written by an LLM is difficult because you have not cognitively loaded the entire thing into your head as you do with code written yourself.

Wow you really nail the point, that's what I felt but I did not understand. Thanks for the comment.

Re: I'm dialing back my LLM usage

#190

Post by pferde »

satvikpendem wrote: post #150
exe34 wrote: post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you need to do something for a thousand times, why don't you write a template?

Templates aren't as flexible as LLMs especially when seeing and utilizing the context of certain files.

Yes, but at least they're reliable and predictable. Two things you desperately want in software development.
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