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I'm dialing back my LLM usage

zed.dev

21–30 of 252 posts

Re: I'm dialing back my LLM usage

#21

LLMs have limits. They are super powerful but they can't make the kind of leap humans can. For example, I asked both Claude and Gemini below problem. "I want to run webserver on Android but it does not allow binding on ports lower than 1000. What are my options?" Both responded with below solutions 1. Use reverse proxy 2. Root the phone 3. Run on higher port Even after asking them to rethink they couldn't come up wit…

Off-topic, but reading your article about hosting a website on your phone inspired me a lot. Is that possible on a non-jail-broken phone? And what webserver would you suggest?

Yes, no root required. I asked Claude to write Flutter app that would serve a static file from assets. There are plenty of webserver available on play store too.

Re: I'm dialing back my LLM usage

#22
post #9

These seem like good checkpoints (and valid criticisms) on the road to progress. But it's also not crazy to think that with LLMs getting smarter (and considerable resources put into making them better at coding), that future versions would clean up and refactor code written by past versions. Correct?

nope, there are limits to what next-token predictions can do, we we have hit those limits. cursor and the like are great for some usecases - for example a semantic search for relevant code snippets, and autocomplete. But beyond that, they only bring frustration in my use.

Re: I'm dialing back my LLM usage

#23

I like Zed's way of doing stuff (Ask mode). Just ask it a question and let it go through the whole thing. I still haven't figured out how to form the question so it doesn't just rail off and start implementing code. I don't care about code, I ask it to either validate my mental model or improve it

This is it. This is a new paradigm and a lot of people seem to think that it’s authoritative. It’s decision support tool, and the output still has to pass an internal litmus test.

Whether someone’s litmus test is well-developed is another matter.

Re: I'm dialing back my LLM usage

#24
My favorite use case for LLMs in long term software production (they're pretty great at one off stuff since I don't need to maintain) is as an advanced boiler plate generator.

Stuff that can't just be abstracted to a function or class but also require no real thought. Tests are often (depending on what they're testing) in this realm.

I was resistant at first, but I love it. It's reduced the parts of my job that I dislike doing because of how monotonous they are and replaced them with a new fun thing to do - optimizing prompts that get it done for me much faster.

Writing the prompt and reviewing the code is _so_ much faster on tedious simple stuff and it leaves the interesting, though provoking parts of my work for me to do.

Re: I'm dialing back my LLM usage

#25
post #4

This is pretty much the conclusion I've come to as well. It's not good at being an autocomplete for entire chunks of your codebase. You lose the mental model of what is doing what, and exactly where. I prefer to use it as a personalized, faster-iterating StackOverflow. I'll ask it to give me a rundown of a concept I'm not familiar with, or for a general direction to point me in if I'm uncertain of what a good solutio…

I use it the same way but cursor is constantly insisting on making code changes. Is there a trick to get it to introspect on the codebase without wanting to modify it?

Re: I'm dialing back my LLM usage

#26
post #12

LLMs save me a lot of time as a software engineer because they save me a ton of time doing either boilerplate work or mundane tasks that are relatively conceptually easy but annoying to actually have to do/type/whatever in an IDE. But I still more-or-less have to think like a software engineer. That's not going to go away. I have to make sure the code remains clean and well-organized -- which, for example, LLMs can h…

> [LLMs] save me a ton of time doing either boilerplate work

I hear this frequently from LLM aficionados. I have a couple of questions about it:

1) If there is so much boilerplate that it takes a significant amount of coding time, why haven't you invested in abstracting it away?

2) The time spent actually writing code is not typically the bottleneck in implementing a system. How much do you really save over the development lifecycle when you have to review the LLM output in any case?

Re: I'm dialing back my LLM usage

#27
post #14

LLMs have limits. They are super powerful but they can't make the kind of leap humans can. For example, I asked both Claude and Gemini below problem. "I want to run webserver on Android but it does not allow binding on ports lower than 1000. What are my options?" Both responded with below solutions 1. Use reverse proxy 2. Root the phone 3. Run on higher port Even after asking them to rethink they couldn't come up wit…

TIL. I knew about the SRV reconds—which almost nobody uses I think?—but this was news to me. I guess it's also actually supported, unlike SRV that are more like supported only by some applications? Matrix migrated from SRV to .well-known files for providing the data. (Or I maybe it supports both.)

You'd be surprised at how many games use SRV records. Children struggle with names; let alone ports and modifier keys.

At least... this was before multiplayer discovery was commandeered. Matchmaking and so on largely put an end to opportunities.

Re: I'm dialing back my LLM usage

#28

LLMs have limits. They are super powerful but they can't make the kind of leap humans can. For example, I asked both Claude and Gemini below problem. "I want to run webserver on Android but it does not allow binding on ports lower than 1000. What are my options?" Both responded with below solutions 1. Use reverse proxy 2. Root the phone 3. Run on higher port Even after asking them to rethink they couldn't come up wit…

I'm adding this tidbit of knowledge to my context as well... :-P

Only recently have I started interacting with LLM's more (I tried out a previous "use it as a book club partner" suggestion, and it's pretty great!).

When coding with them (via cursor), there was an interaction where I nudged it: "hey, you forgot xyz when you wrote that code the first time" (ie: updating an associated data structure or cache or whatever), and I find myself INTENTIONALLY giving the machine at least the shadow of a benefit of the doubt that: "Yeah, I might have made that mistake too if I were writing that code" or "Yeah, I might have written the base case first and _then_ gotten around to updating the cache, or decrementing the overall number of found items or whatever".

In the "book club" and "movie club" case, I asked it to discuss two movies and there were a few flubs: was the main character "justly imprisoned", or "unjustly imprisoned" ... a human might have made that same typo? Correct it, don't dwell on it, go with the flow... even in a 100% human discussion on books and movies, people (and hallucinating AI/LLM's) can not remember with 100% pinpoint accuracy every little detail, and I find giving a bit of benefit of the doubt to the conversation partner lowers my stress level quite a bit.

I guess: even when it's an AI, try to keep your interactions positive.

Re: I'm dialing back my LLM usage

#29
I think they are making me more productive in achieving my targets and worse in my ability to program.

They are exactly like steroids - bigger muscles fast but tons of side effects and everything collapses the moment you stop. Companies don't care because they are more concerned about getting to their targets fast instead of your health.

Another harmful drug for our brain if consumed without moderation. I won't entirely stop using them but I have already started to actively control/focus my usage.

Re: I'm dialing back my LLM usage

#30
post #11

Am I spending too much time on HN or is every post/comment section filled with this same narrative? Basically, LLMs are exciting but they produce messy code for which the dev feels no ownership. Managing a codebase written by an LLM is difficult because you have not cognitively loaded the entire thing into your head as you do with code written yourself. They're okay for one-off scripts or projects you do not intend t…

I think you hit the nail on the head with the mental model part. I really like this method of thinking about programming "Programming as Theory Building" https://gist.github.com/onlurking/fc5c81d18cfce9ff81bc968a7f... I don't mind when other programmers use AI, and use it myself. What I mind is the abdication of responsibility for the code or result. I don't think that we should be issuing a disclaimer when we use AI…

Even putting aside the ethical issues, it's rare that I want to copy/paste code that I find into my own project without doing a thorough review of it. Typically if I'm working off some example I've found, I will hand-type it in my project's established coding style and add comments to clarify things that are not obvious to me in that moment. With an LLM's output, I think I would have to adopt a similar workflow, and right now that feels slower than just solving the problem myself. I already have the project's domain in my mental map, and explaining it to the agent is tedious and a time waste.

I think this is often overlooked, because on the one hand it's really impressive what the predictive model can sometimes do. Maybe it's super handy as an autocomplete, or an exploration, or for rapidly building a prototype? But for real codebases, the code itself isn't the important part. What matters is documenting the business logic and setting it up for efficient maintenance by all stakeholders in the project. That's the actual task, right there. I spend more time writing documentation and unit tests to validate that business logic than I do actually writing the code that will pass those tests, and a lot of that time is specifically spent coordinating with my peers to make sure I understand those requirements, that they were specified correctly, that the customer will be satisfied with the solution... all stuff an LLM isn't really able to replace.

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