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/r/StableDiffusion – Mod here – My side of the story

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Re: /r/StableDiffusion – Mod here – My side of the story

#181

Post by practice9 »

widowlark wrote: post #148
PragmaticPulp wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> In some ways Reddit is worse than Facebook because it is influenced by anonymous entities with zero checks and balances. The discourse in many subreddits is invisibly dictated by the moderators. It's not obvious when you browse posts because everything is organically coming from random people. However, moderators can entirely shape the conversation by only allowing posts that say what they want. In other words: The…

I was banned from r/streetphotography with my first post because, despite it being a street photograph, the moderator on the clock at the time thought it was 'too derivative' - It was a permanent ban. Since then, I have taken tens of thousands of street photos, and the fact that I cannot post them on the most-used street photography subreddit is confusing and shitty.

Similar problems exists with Wikipedia and StackOverflow moderators. IMO people who become moderators just enjoy exercising their (often unchecked) power in these online communities.

Re: /r/StableDiffusion – Mod here – My side of the story

#182

Post by NayamAmarshe »

MichaelCollins wrote: post #141
NayamAmarshe wrote: post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That was a really bad comparison. Moderators on Reddit can be biased in different areas, they might let a comment pass or have a nervous breakdown over something they don't like. It's not clear and never will be but you still have the freedom. Facebook algorithm does not miss. It does not overlook things or understand context. All it knows is someone said something they're not supposed to and that is the difference.…

It's a good analogy because they're both terrible. You can fly under the radar on reddit or facebook by staying small or using innuendo, but why subject yourself to either? Whatever relative merit one may have vs the other is irrelevant since neither is worth using. In both cases, you are only as free as a medieval peasant; "free" to say what you like as long as the lord or his informants don't hear you.

My utopia does not have Facebook or Reddit but whatever it has, is closer to Reddit than Facebook. So I'm ready to pick the better of the two options at the moment.

I do condemn censorship in all forms (unless specific laws are being followed) but after fighting against all the platforms for a voice, I see Reddit as the best option for civil discourse. Hackernews is also very close to reddit and we know the model works very well.

Wherever I am, I'm always looking for good discussions (like this thread for example) and I'm glad that I can do it more freely on Reddit and HN than I ever could on Twitter or Facebook, hence my comments.

Re: /r/StableDiffusion – Mod here – My side of the story

#183

Post by spookthesunset »

Brusco_RF wrote: post #139
spookthesunset wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For forget you can get preemptively banned from many subs simply by posting in a “wrong think” sub the mods don’t like. Granted you can just create a new account to route around it but still…

For a good laugh, drop a comment in /r/ChurchOfCovid and watch the auto-bans roll in for a few hours

Yup. The biggest tip off that our response to Covid is basically a scam is the fact that you are absolutely not allowed to think anything beyond what “the experts” say. And not just any “expert” either, only ones that fall inline and spread doom and gloom.

God damn I still cannot get over how many people continue to buy into this Covid nonsense.

Re: /r/StableDiffusion – Mod here – My side of the story

#184

Post by tommek4077 »

shadowgovt wrote: post #64
codeflo wrote: post #44

So, to summarize: Both Reddit and Discord force transfered seemingly officially named communities to the trademark owning entity. That sucks, but it’s also something that social media companies have been doing 10 times a week since forever. Is there something special about this instance that makes it news?

Mostly that yet another online community is shocked to learn that they thought they were living in a house they'd invested their own sweat equity into building when the whole time, they were really living in a shantytown parked in a spare corner of some corporation's city. If it ain't your computer (and if no money even changed hands), it ain't your property.

It always sounds strange when someone is talking about a "server" after creating a chat channel on a glorified IRC-fork.

Re: /r/StableDiffusion – Mod here – My side of the story

#185

Post by exolymph »

aaaaaaaaaaab wrote: post #38
wsb_mod2 wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yup, @dang is paid. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23810452

How much?

It's definitely none of your business, but as someone who does similar work, I'd guess in the territory of $100k–150k. (That's not how much I get paid, but I work at a much smaller and less established org.)

Re: /r/StableDiffusion – Mod here – My side of the story

#186

Post by jrockway »

widowlark wrote: post #148
PragmaticPulp wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> In some ways Reddit is worse than Facebook because it is influenced by anonymous entities with zero checks and balances. The discourse in many subreddits is invisibly dictated by the moderators. It's not obvious when you browse posts because everything is organically coming from random people. However, moderators can entirely shape the conversation by only allowing posts that say what they want. In other words: The…

I was banned from r/streetphotography with my first post because, despite it being a street photograph, the moderator on the clock at the time thought it was 'too derivative' - It was a permanent ban. Since then, I have taken tens of thousands of street photos, and the fact that I cannot post them on the most-used street photography subreddit is confusing and shitty.

I got banned from r/AskReddit for posting the Chicago Transit Authority's customer service phone number, because it was "personal information". (In a thread about the CTA, no less. The rule is any comment that matches the regular expression /\d{3}-\d{4}/ is a permaban.)

I also got kicked out of a Discord server I moderated because someone asked to be nagged about doing their homework, and I nagged them, and then someone in the server created fanart of my anime profile picture hitting their anime profile picture on the head with a magic wand, and I pinned it. I thought it was hilarious and I treasure it to this day. But that apparently was the last straw. ("There must have been some underlying issue," I hear you cry. There was. There were some differences of opinion on how to moderate the channel and the discord server. The community skewed about 60% female, and I was pretty quick to time stuff out like "women should be in the kitchen, not watching a stream" when the inevitable edgelord showed up to troll. This was apparently a controversial opinion, and all the other mods that would back me up on those decisions had long since left. I was pretty late to the giving up party, but I'm glad I eventually left. Even if not on my own terms ;)

The TL;DR here is yeah, it's really easy to be a bad community manager, and people are pretty good at easy things. Stir in a spoonful of power tripping, and the results are predictable.

Re: /r/StableDiffusion – Mod here – My side of the story

#187

Post by mensetmanusman »

pdntspa wrote: post #179
gfd wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Was there a dedicated HN submission for this topic? This is extremely fascinating to me. In what Andrej Karpathy calls "software 2.0"[1], leaking your model is equivalent to leaking the main IP of your company. Unlike source code where it loses value quickly out of context (e.g. twitch leaked their code yet that didn't spawn a bunch of twitch clones), models can be fine-tuned and transfer-learning-ed for many other p…

If you're going to make those claims you need to be providing evidence, like side-by-side comparisons. What you have posted there reeks of a hit-and-run. Kind of with automatic on this one, good imperative code can only take so many forms. Plus there is the argument that no IP deserves protection, and that no IP owner should have any rights, ever, given that information is infinitely copyable and yearns to be free.

“ Plus there is the argument that no IP deserves protection, and that no IP owner should have any rights, ever, given that information is infinitely copyable and yearns to be free.”

These arguments aren’t taken that seriously by people that understand investment, technology development, and risk mitigation though.

Re: /r/StableDiffusion – Mod here – My side of the story

#188

Post by mensetmanusman »

nullc wrote: post #91
shadowgovt wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Given the dude spent half a million dollars on training SD, I wouldn't be surprised if even though he chose to open-source the trained model, he has strong opinions on whether people should have the right to choose to open-source such things vs. having third-party crackers breach their systems and publish for them.

Perhaps, but the model weights themselves are currently understood to be uncopyrightable, and it's pretty inconceivable that the model could become copyrightable without becoming a derivative work of the training data. Unless these AI companies want google and facebook to be literally the only companies in the world that can train large scale machine learning (by using their TOS to get licenses from their users) they…

“ it's pretty inconceivable that the model could become copyrightable”

If it costs $10 million to find information/weightings/etc., our current legal system would consider that intellectual property which might not be copyrightable but would be considered IP theft if stolen.

Re: /r/StableDiffusion – Mod here – My side of the story

#189

Post by pdntspa »

mensetmanusman wrote: post #187
pdntspa wrote: post #179

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you're going to make those claims you need to be providing evidence, like side-by-side comparisons. What you have posted there reeks of a hit-and-run. Kind of with automatic on this one, good imperative code can only take so many forms. Plus there is the argument that no IP deserves protection, and that no IP owner should have any rights, ever, given that information is infinitely copyable and yearns to be free.

“ Plus there is the argument that no IP deserves protection, and that no IP owner should have any rights, ever, given that information is infinitely copyable and yearns to be free.” These arguments aren’t taken that seriously by people that understand investment, technology development, and risk mitigation though.

I get that, but that is because they have built businesses off the backs of IP exploitation. You cannot get people to understand your argument when their paycheck is derived from it.

That we allow (even encourage) such blatant violations of natural laws and physics is one of the more contemptible attributes of us as a people, IMHO

Just because an industry exists doesn't mean it's valid. Like living things, business entities have a survival instinct that will fight anything that that threatens it. And the dismantling of their business plan is a pretty big threat. Like cancer, these things start small and metastasize until they endanger the life of the host.

Re: /r/StableDiffusion – Mod here – My side of the story

#190

Post by ShamelessC »

jVinc wrote: post #167
ryzvonusef wrote: post #5

https://old.reddit.com/r/SubredditDrama/comments/xzdkio/stab... apparently, there is a separate drama about hacking at SD and accusations of ownership of code.

This is such a weird drama. The way I read it SD was effectively trying to put pressure on a guy because he developed a popular UI for using SD, and made that UI also support another model. So all their moral grandstanding is effectively just about trying to keep the popular gateway site pointing only at them, but their throwing shit at the guy who gave them that huge free PR push... What an odd position, but underst…

Indeed it's a decision that feels like it was made in a tonedeaf echo chamber. As a rule of thumb, if it is allowed on GitHub then coders are probably okay with that, and individual companies will have to use the dmca process.

This goes beyond that, taking the stance that by merely conforming your api to work with a user-provided proprietary checkpoint, you're in the wrong? This same philosophy forbids sharing open source game emulators, and we all know how that turned out (can be the best way to play a game).

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