Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Salaries in large urban districts are often well above area median Is the median the correct benchmark? The median household income in NYC was $67k in 2021 [0]. Why would someone choose to be a teacher making around the median [1] when you could be a software engineer and make 3x as much? It's not just a matter of trinkets and baubles. That difference allows you to comfortably afford a nice family sized apartment […
That assumes someone qualified to be a teacher is also qualified to be a software engineer. Have you met a lot of urban public school teachers?
Nobody wants to teach anymore
181–190 of 1001 posts
Re: Nobody wants to teach anymore
#182The problem/solution is YouTube. There is prestige in being a YouTube super-teacher like 3B1B, teaching millions of people. There is no prestige in teaching kids at a local high school who don't even want to learn. The smart people who once might have found their vocation in teaching, now prefer to set up YouTube channels. The role of teacher is splitting into content makers and babysitters.
YouTube teaching is inherently one sided. There is significantly more to teaching than that. Tailoring the lesson to the individual, being able to immediately respond to questions, knowing when someone doesn't understand. These things are super important for great teaching. YouTube and online one sided teaching courses are never going to be able to beat that.
Re: Nobody wants to teach anymore
#183As a European, it has always been perplexing to me how little the US invests in teachers and schools, given that we know how huge the benefits are down the road (educational attainment, income, pro-social behavior, life satisfaction). Watching how large parts of the political spectrum embrace hardship as a societal teaching tool, I begin to understand that the expectation may always have been that kids ought to figur…
1) European perspectives on a lot of American problems miss one of the biggest differences between us: you have a lot more of a homogeneous population. There's numerous differences between designing a school system for basically all Hungarian or all Norwegian kids, for example, and figuring out what the hell you can do with a school mixed with Latinos, Asians, Blacks, and Whites with all different levels of interests, drive, and ability.
2) You've made a few statements of objective fact here without backing them up. Does the US actually invest little in education? I suspect that a lot of the money is of course wasted, but they do spend a crapload of money, and I'd bet dramatically more than many other countries. As another thing, does increasing spending (as the only variable that changes) lead to dramatic differences in educational outcomes? To a point, I'm sure it helps, but at some point, I think it doesn't. As an example, a young Forest Gump might be able to pass Basic Arithmetic in his elementary school if given a private tutor who gave him their full attention and effort, but there's no universe in which Forrest Gump gets an A+ in Advanced Calculus even if he's given 1,000 of the best teachers in the world to personally tutor him 24/7.
3) There's an age old debate about Nature vs. Nurture, which of course will not be settled here today. But I'd like to point out that if "Nature" is generally the most important variable in success, then beyond a certain point, there's a level of diminishing returns with education spending and simply throwing money at schools is not a wise course. Just throwing more money at a problem is, I suspect, the path we've taken up until now.
Re: Nobody wants to teach anymore
#184People do want to teach and get paid to do it. It’s called private schools. They charge what the market will bear for their quality and location, and they pay what the market rate is for teachers of the requisite quality that let them charge the rates they need. What confuddles people in education is the same thing that causes endless articles about housing, healthcare, inflation… it’s called “basic economics”. Just…
There's an unspoken benefit of private schools though: kids of teachers get to attend for free or at a hugely discounted rate. When I was at one, just about every teacher left after their kids graduated. The ones who stayed either had some nice admin role, or their spouse was the main breadwinner.
I went for cheap 20 years ago, but my younger siblings did not. Not even a discount
Re: Nobody wants to teach anymore
#185Re: Nobody wants to teach anymore
#186Earlier quoted context omitted.
there is a way of expressing respect in market economies, it's called money.
Public schools are not a market economy. Even in the most capitalist country in the world, there will be obligatory free public schools, and they will be government-financed. The level of demand, however, can vary. Do Americans even want good public education? Or it is an afterthought?
Re: Nobody wants to teach anymore
#187Earlier quoted context omitted.
It's pretty close to the median worker having a bachelor's degree so that doesn't really skew the comparison Ultimately teaching salaries are fine. The median teacher makes about the median salary. But it comes with great job security, benefits, and significantly more time off than the median job. The benefits are high enough to attract enough teachers. The problem are parents and administration. And more recently ki…
> Ultimately teaching salaries are fine. The median teacher makes about the median salary. But it comes with great job security, benefits, and significantly more time off than the median job. I know 3 public school teachers, in CA/NYC/NJ. Their 6 to 8 weeks off in the summer (if that, due to ongoing training), is nowhere near enough to offset the low pay per hour and most importantly, having to deal with garbage pare…
Re: Nobody wants to teach anymore
#188Earlier quoted context omitted.
I mean, if you have a class of 20 students (which seems on the smaller end), that would be a "revenue" of over a quarter million per teacher, right? I feel like we should be able to do a pretty good job with that while paying a teacher a decent salary.
Not really. That class of twenty needs a building to take place, which in turn needs upkeep. It needs supplies and equipment (workbooks, computers, dodgeballs), and it needs some level of administration[0]. The teachers presumably want benefits too. At a university, the “overhead” costs of research [1] are on the order of 50%: doing $100k worth of research require another $50k to keep the lights on, the building clea…
I was actually thinking 50% would make the math easy but probably be a bit unrealistic, but I arrive at about the same place as you I think. Also I'd imagine that most classes are larger than 20, but hopefully smaller than 30.
Re: Nobody wants to teach anymore
#189I realize this piece is more of a rant, and I won't hold it to a data accuracy standard it never pretended to have, but they pay issue is really misconstrued. Salaries in large urban districts are often well above area median, and when accounting for benefits and pension, quite impressive. In South Dakota and a number of states in the south and rural districts, yes it is another story, and it is bad. Also, teachers N…
Starting salaries for many districts for jobs that require a masters is pathetic. Many suburban schools pay decent, but often urban centers pay poorly. I know one person who was offered under $30k for teaching young special Ed folks. This is someone who has a masters and extra certs on tops of that. Your argument about physics teachers being more sought after is interesting but misses the point. As a society we want…
Also, the average kindergarten teacher probably generates a lot less than $300k per year.
Re: Nobody wants to teach anymore
#190A few random thoughts: 1. For as much as we spend on education, teachers seem to be grossly underpaid - to be getting robbed of their share of the budget. Where does that money go? 2. It seems that education degrees are seen as easier to achieve than others. 3. Teachers frequently complain about how they are unappreciated, yet children spend _12 years_ in their care. Why do people come up to them and say they hated s…
Well many students hated school, it is what it is. If you get beat up on a daily basis or are bored out of your mind (because let's face it, most of the material IS boring) I don't see why you should feel obligated to thank your teachers. It's not their fault but they also don't really deserve a thank you. Yes most teacher do what they can but it doesn't change the fact so many students are generally unhappy in school.