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Nobody wants to teach anymore

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Re: Nobody wants to teach anymore

#11

Post by Wowfunhappy »

GiorgioG wrote: post #5
uniqueuid wrote: post #2

As a European, it has always been perplexing to me how little the US invests in teachers and schools, given that we know how huge the benefits are down the road (educational attainment, income, pro-social behavior, life satisfaction). Watching how large parts of the political spectrum embrace hardship as a societal teaching tool, I begin to understand that the expectation may always have been that kids ought to figur…

"K-12 schools spend $666.9 billion or $13,185 per pupil annually." - https://educationdata.org/public-education-spending-statisti... We invest plenty. We just don't get a great return on our investment.

I'd argue $13K per student is quite low relative to the services expected. I mean, compare that to the price of college tuition.

Now, college is too expensive and I certainly wouldn't want to replicate that problem in K-12 schools. But... well, in some ways colleges have it easier, because the students are older and can be expected to be more independent. You can't have a 100-person lecture in a K-12 setting (not that I love classes like that at the college level either).

Re: Nobody wants to teach anymore

#12

Post by 8jef »

That's a great thing happening. No one knows how to teach anyway anyhow. It's a lost art, a forgotten knowledge, which have given way to formatting, somewhere in the last Century. Preparing young souls for Life: _teaching_ is very different from telling people how to do things and stuff: _formatting_.

We are forced to go full circle now. Throwing out garbage, as we can't keep up. That's a good thing.

Re: Nobody wants to teach anymore

#13

Post by kevingadd »

GiorgioG wrote: post #5
uniqueuid wrote: post #2

As a European, it has always been perplexing to me how little the US invests in teachers and schools, given that we know how huge the benefits are down the road (educational attainment, income, pro-social behavior, life satisfaction). Watching how large parts of the political spectrum embrace hardship as a societal teaching tool, I begin to understand that the expectation may always have been that kids ought to figur…

"K-12 schools spend $666.9 billion or $13,185 per pupil annually." - https://educationdata.org/public-education-spending-statisti... We invest plenty. We just don't get a great return on our investment.

By what standard is that actually "plenty"? Is that $13185 enough to properly fund all the services a child needs for a proper education? And if it's not, why not? How much do you believe we should be spending per student?

You can point at a big number and say 'that's enough' but we spend large amounts of money on all sorts of things, the number being large doesn't mean it's sufficient. There are tons of children in need of an education out there and they're frequently crammed into overcrowded schools in buildings badly needing maintenance, while teachers have to buy supplies out of pocket. Maybe the answer is that all that money is being siphoned away and we would be fine if we redistributed it correctly, but the premise that we're already investing enough seems pretty questionable to me without proof.

Re: Nobody wants to teach anymore

#15

Post by lr4444lr »

I realize this piece is more of a rant, and I won't hold it to a data accuracy standard it never pretended to have, but they pay issue is really misconstrued. Salaries in large urban districts are often well above area median, and when accounting for benefits and pension, quite impressive. In South Dakota and a number of states in the south and rural districts, yes it is another story, and it is bad. Also, teachers NEVER want to discuss pay differentials by anything but years of service. I'm sorry, but most qualified high school physics teachers have way differently valued skillsets in the labor force by alternate employers than most kindergarten teachers.

Re: Nobody wants to teach anymore

#16

Post by a-dub »

ekianjo wrote: post #7
ChrisMarshallNY wrote: post #3

Teaching/training is quite difficult. I've done quite a bit of training (but not true teaching -there's a difference), over the years. My family is full of teachers. I have many friends that are teachers. It's amazing how "solutions" never seem to actually get around to simply paying teachers more, and maybe not expecting them to be child-rearers, in lieu of parents.

paying teachers more is not going to solve the problem that most people do not appreciate teachers whether its kids or parents. It is certainly not a job for those who cannot stand being criticized the whole time.

there is a way of expressing respect in market economies, it's called money.

Re: Nobody wants to teach anymore

#17

Post by mantas »

ekianjo wrote: post #7
ChrisMarshallNY wrote: post #3

Teaching/training is quite difficult. I've done quite a bit of training (but not true teaching -there's a difference), over the years. My family is full of teachers. I have many friends that are teachers. It's amazing how "solutions" never seem to actually get around to simply paying teachers more, and maybe not expecting them to be child-rearers, in lieu of parents.

paying teachers more is not going to solve the problem that most people do not appreciate teachers whether its kids or parents. It is certainly not a job for those who cannot stand being criticized the whole time.

Paying more will solve the appreciation problem.

My wife is (ex)teacher. Parents would flat-out say that they can't respect her because of her salary. Along the lines of, if you're smart and can do stuff, why the hell are you working for such a low pay? Ergo teachers are dumb and parents (along with their kids) feel free to make fun of dumbasses who work in schools.

On top of that, paying more would help with self-respect. It's damn hard to be an authority to kids when you live paycheck-to-paycheck. Especially in teens' world where appearance matters a lot.

Re: Nobody wants to teach anymore

#18

Post by kcplate »

ekianjo wrote: post #6

A teacher should know better than making blanket statements every 2 lines with "Americans think..". What a bad article.

While I don’t necessarily disagree with many of her points, the overly dramatic and staccato style made this irritating to read. She succeeded in having me walk away from the article frustrated, not with the problem, but with her article.

Re: Nobody wants to teach anymore

#19

Post by lr4444lr »

Wowfunhappy wrote: post #11
GiorgioG wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"K-12 schools spend $666.9 billion or $13,185 per pupil annually." - https://educationdata.org/public-education-spending-statisti... We invest plenty. We just don't get a great return on our investment.

I'd argue $13K per student is quite low relative to the services expected. I mean, compare that to the price of college tuition. Now, college is too expensive and I certainly wouldn't want to replicate that problem in K-12 schools. But... well, in some ways colleges have it easier, because the students are older and can be expected to be more independent. You can't have a 100-person lecture in a K-12 setting (not tha…

Fine, compare it to portion of GDP. Like healthcare, we spend a lot and get poor return if you measure objectively by things like standardized tests, unemployment, imprisonment, etc.
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