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Shoplifting reaches crisis proportions

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Re: Shoplifting reaches crisis proportions

#181

Post by etrautmann »

ahh wrote: post #43
tomlockwood wrote: post #25

I'd like anyone who considers more harsh jail punishments to be the solution to consider that the USA has the highest per-capita prison population in the world. Only 1/5 of those prisoners is in there for drug-related crime. Perhaps harsher punishments aren't going to help here.

If only 1/5th of those prisoners are there for drug-crime (and I assume you believe as I do that much drug-related crime isn't worth the arrest?) then isn't that in fact evidence that our population commits substantially more _real_ crime than in other countries? If so, then yes, let's lock them up. "Everyone steals" is not a good defense to stealing.

Someone is not born a "stealer" or "not a stealer". Conditions in society can be a cause.

Re: Shoplifting reaches crisis proportions

#182

Post by azth »

SllX wrote: post #21
krapp wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Chop off a hand if convicted for theft. Actually enforce our laws. That's... not a law anywhere in the US that I'm aware of.

It’s actually not an enforceable law anywhere in the US since that would be cruel and unusual punishment.

The goal is justice.

Re: Shoplifting reaches crisis proportions

#184

Post by azth »

qbasic_forever wrote: post #11
TedShiller wrote: post #2

Let the market handle this. Simply close stores with high theft rates, which will happen anyway since they’re unprofitable.

Why should my grocery store close because people are stealing things from it? What do I do, just starve?

Talk to your government officials to fix the underlying problem.

Re: Shoplifting reaches crisis proportions

#185

Post by seanmcdirmid »

rsj_hn wrote: post #109
tomlockwood wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This shoplifting epidemic is happening because no one is going to jail for this. Is that true? https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2018/may/17/walmart-shop...

I don't think that they literally meant "no one", but rather that a small group of people commit a majority of the crimes, and if those people were behind bars, the crimes rates would fall back to normal levels. There is evidence to support this thesis. First, we do know that a small group of people commit most of the crimes. Second, we see that in the U.S. when we let people out of institutions the crime rate went u…

> One middle ground of toleration you see in developing countries is creating zones where crimes can be committed more freely and rich people can buy their own security or live in zones where crimes are punished.

This is already happening in the USA. Bellevue WA has a much lower crime rate than Seattle WA. It isn't the rich people "buying" their own security, however, rather than them demanding their police are more numerous and tougher on crime than the city across the lake (pushing the problem over there). Even if King County (where Seattle and Bellevue are) doesn't prosecute, the people doing these things get annoyed with constant police interaction and harassment and so find Seattle much more appealing.

Re: Shoplifting reaches crisis proportions

#186

Post by seanmcdirmid »

0xcde4c3db wrote: post #118

Lately there are a lot of people who want to sell this story of out-of-control shoplifting, but as the article itself notes at the end, it might be bullshit: > Yes, but: An analysis of crime statistics and other reporting by The Atlantic [1] cast doubt on what it called the "great shoplifting freak-out," citing "fuzzy data" and asserting that what's being lumped together as shoplifting is actually a variety of violen…

If you've seen the problem first hand, you wouldn't dismiss it as BS, but I get how people who live in more comfortable environs would find it hard to believe. If you ever visit the Target in downtown Seattle, you can see people just grabbing things off the shelf, the associates watch, follow, try to dissuade them, but 5/10 they get out the door with what they've stolen. It is very depressing to actually see it happen.

The LEGO shelf in that store was cleared out long ago, much to my son's sadness.

But I wouldn't really call this "shoplifting" like I knew it as a kid (when my friends would do it on a stupid dare, trying not to get caught). These people...they aren't worried about getting caught, they aren't subtle about it, they just know the system isn't going to punish them so why not? Like who the heck would try to shoplift a 70 inch TV and think they could do that without anyone noticing? And the judge let him go even though he had like 5 bench warrants:

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10447987/Prolific-s...

Re: Shoplifting reaches crisis proportions

#187

Post by seanmcdirmid »

WalterGR wrote: post #171
phendrenad2 wrote: post #164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That doesn't answer my question, but... that article you tell me to read merely says that there isn't enough information to say that there's a theft spike, it does not provide any evidence against a theft spike.

Those can be equivalent.

Not really. If stores aren't reporting their theft problems because police aren't doing anything about them...the theft problem remains even if the crime statistics magically don't show it. Everyone quickly realizes it is a farce and even the most left-wing SF politician stops using the statistics in their arguments.

Re: Shoplifting reaches crisis proportions

#188

Post by seanmcdirmid »

candiodari wrote: post #165
MattGaiser wrote: post #139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They are challenging the assumption/claim that they are profitable.

... while avoiding all blame on management. They made no errors. Not on market research, leading to lack of profitability. Not on managing the store. Nothing is their fault. That alone makes it a bit too convenient.

Our local QFC keeps cutting back their hours because of:

a. They can't hire enough people.

b. Shoplifting spikes later at night, so why bother being open then, especially when (a) is a problem.

It isn't just one thing, but given two problems put together, it leads to stones (cut hours, close stores) that kill multiple birds.

Re: Shoplifting reaches crisis proportions

#189

Post by seanmcdirmid »

lamontcg wrote: post #166
buscoquadnary wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

These people aren't shoplifting to get their needs and to propose such so am ignorance of the situation. There was a wonderful and detailed article a while back about a baby formula shoplifting ring in the south that shows how this works. The people who are doing the shoplifting are often drug addicts who are promised cash payments or more drugs if they will go and shoplift by a middle man who then stockpiles the goo…

So it sounds like if people had jobs and weren't addicted to drugs they wouldn't be working for shoplifting rings.

Or they had jobs before they got addicted to drugs, and lost them because meth isn't very compatible with working. Honestly, why does everyone assume people lose their job and then start on drugs? There are plenty of people that do drugs while working, and it isn't surprising that not everyone can keep up like that.

Re: Shoplifting reaches crisis proportions

#190

Post by seanmcdirmid »

glogla wrote: post #72
buscoquadnary wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

These people aren't shoplifting to get their needs and to propose such so am ignorance of the situation. There was a wonderful and detailed article a while back about a baby formula shoplifting ring in the south that shows how this works. The people who are doing the shoplifting are often drug addicts who are promised cash payments or more drugs if they will go and shoplift by a middle man who then stockpiles the goo…

This sounds like exactly the kind of this someone who doesn't want to confront millions of their countrymen living in desperation would tell themselves. No idea if it's really true, but it is suspicious how there's always a good explanation that something that looks like terrible injustice actually isn't.

In that case, they really seem to need LEGOs for their mental well being. While that would work for me, the more believable explanation is that legos are much easier to fence for drug money.
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