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Why Working from Home Will Stick [pdf]

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Re: Why Working from Home Will Stick [pdf]

#181
post #122

I've been 100% remote and run remote teams since 2014 and I promise that it won't stick for the broader society. Here's why: 1. Socializing is the primary activity that happens at work for the vast majority of workers. The gal or guy coming by your desk to "check in" or "see how your weekend was" etc... is literally where they find their social outlets and personal connections. 2. Managers like to be able to watch th…

None of these tackle the one aspect that trumps everything else in the corporate world. Is this better for the company? Even if the majority of companies see things this way, they will return to the office. But those that succeed, survive, thrive or dominate a market will do whatever that makes them successful along the way. It doesn't matter if people like routine if the other guy beats you on revenue, time to marke…

> Is this better for the company?

Yes. Key positives for a company are reduced cost of office space and ability to draw upon a wider, cheaper pool of potential workers and increased employee satisfaction (for some, not everyone prefers working from home). Key negatives are reduced productivity due to lack of supervision, difficulty of face-to-face meetings with clients, difficulty of training younger staff.

Its a tradeoff and I think different businesses will fall into different buckets and there will also always be some inertia to change. I do think that the 'new normal' is neither 5 days 9-5 in the office OR complete remote work but something more like a couple of days in the office and a couple at home every week for most staff. But this wil probably be a plurality of the workforce only, with substantial numbers completely remote or close to, and substantial numbers also still in 5 days a week.

Re: Why Working from Home Will Stick [pdf]

#182

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Working together in person has to be 10 times more effective. Major doubt that anyone thinks remote working is actually more effective from the companies perspective. The only argument I ever here is that antisocial people prefer not seeing other people and getting their work done alone.

Not sure where you came up with this, judging by the number of product announcements on HN in the past year people seem pretty busy.

Did anyone have a choice in the matter?

Re: Why Working from Home Will Stick [pdf]

#183
As a grad student who has the freedom to choose wfh or going to work place: being at home all the time doesn't really work for me.

Although I spend maybe half of the time working at home, at workplace I can enjoy my lunch with colleagues without cooking (possibly free if it was a company), work in an environment that is less distracted and avoid being with my family 24/7.

Re: Why Working from Home Will Stick [pdf]

#184
post #170

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The average Millenial worker will job hop every 1-3 years. While it’s good to be friendly with your colleagues, you also shouldn’t build friend networks that get broken and reformed with such regularity.

Millenial or not, those friend networks are still how you'll be able to find the better jobs when you're older.

I've gotten better jobs through networking and none of them were friends. People should recommend others who are good at their job, not friends.

It's important to be _friendly_ at work but that doesn't mean someone is your friend.

Re: Why Working from Home Will Stick [pdf]

#185

The problem is multi-faceted. While this is entirely anecdotal I have observed a LOT of time theft by employees. And been asked more than ever to investigate employee behavior (even when I normally try and advise against the approach) Some more egregious than others. While most probably aren’t going to awol for a day at a time I know a LOT of people that now spend working hours doing leisure things. Maybe that’s a su…

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Re: Why Working from Home Will Stick [pdf]

#186

I've been 100% remote and run remote teams since 2014 and I promise that it won't stick for the broader society. Here's why: 1. Socializing is the primary activity that happens at work for the vast majority of workers. The gal or guy coming by your desk to "check in" or "see how your weekend was" etc... is literally where they find their social outlets and personal connections. 2. Managers like to be able to watch th…

Most of the things you’re describing are actually the consequences of things being really broken. Some of that is obvious (e.g. point 2), but the rest is subtle. My biggest concern is #1. While everyone has always socialized at work, it seems like modern Americans depend more on work for socialization than ever before. That is probably not a good thing, especially since modern professionals job hop more than ever. A…

Good point. Even pre-Covid, I think most people don't have much of a third place. It's work or home for the majority of socialization, and maybe the occasional hang out or outdoorsy activity with friends.

Re: Why Working from Home Will Stick [pdf]

#187

I've been 100% remote and run remote teams since 2014 and I promise that it won't stick for the broader society. Here's why: 1. Socializing is the primary activity that happens at work for the vast majority of workers. The gal or guy coming by your desk to "check in" or "see how your weekend was" etc... is literally where they find their social outlets and personal connections. 2. Managers like to be able to watch th…

SF Bay area, used to commute to SF. Interestingly, every point you said was completely false for me:

> 1. Socializing is the primary activity that happens at work for the vast majority of workers. The gal or guy coming by your desk to "check in" or "see how your weekend was" etc... is literally where they find their social outlets and personal connections.

Not for me, or most of my cowoerks at Google. We absolutely would be doing more work by WFH. When we indeed going to hang out in the office with coworker, that's because we are bored by the work at hands, and need some outlet or simply resting. Not that we desire hanging out with coworkers.

> 2. Managers like to be able to watch their direct reports because it makes them feel more in control than they are

I never was in a team that managers need to see their reports. Most of the time, I often want to see my manager(s) in the office, but they were enjoying their meetings all day every day through the week.

> 3. The commuting routine, even if it's a nightmare, offers a sense of normalcy that most people have gotten used to and in a weird way rely on for grounding.

This sounds weird. I absolutely hate the commute. I am pretty sure that without the commute, my work output would double. Just by having those commute time being actual working hours.

I dont feel commuting is normal. Commuting isn't ideal for anyone. That's an unreasonable idea to me.

> 4. For a huge swath of Americans at least, work is an escape from the drudgery of the home.

That's somewhat true.

I indeed felt relaxed in office without being bothered by my children.

But now after all of us get used to the mode where my closed door means I am not to be disturbed, I absolutely love working from home. For example, if I need a rest, I can grab my younger son, and play with my older daughter. Fantastic experience! I think WFH have reshaped my relationship with my daughter because of more time together.

Re: Why Working from Home Will Stick [pdf]

#188

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it lasts until a startup (not necessarily in tech) dethrones an incumbent because working in-person helped with vision, alignment, and performance. My hunch is that WFH projects are less ambitious and have less collaboration.

^This Everyone gets into "heads down" mode, "get tickets" done mode, and the big picture gets missed when everyone is scattered with 100% WFH. Also, hiring new engineers with 100% WFH has been an total nightmare. I think that 3 days in-office is "just right"

We did 3 days-in office before the pandemic and it was great. Working from home all the time feels like being under house arrest.

Re: Why Working from Home Will Stick [pdf]

#189

Many of these debates about work from home remind me of the arguments about “online banking” or “e-commerce” in the early internet days. One side argues that the interpersonal relationships are critical and can never be replicated fully online. The other points at the convenience factor and claims a higher productivity for all involved. The truth as always is somewhere in the middle. I do most of my banking online, b…

There's something more insidious to your analogy though. A lot of those banking jobs don't exist anymore.

Any job that can be WFH will be easy to outsource. You aren't need in office so why do we even need you in this time zone? Outsource it cheap. If it really is manageable from a 30 min standup and Jira then why even bother with expensive devs?

Before you had a small competitive market in a central location. Now you're opening it up.

On top of that, remote work I find is starting to bleed over. I have meetings well past 5 now, quite often. I get messaged late and early. Whereas with the office it was different. People respected boundaries much more. Fully remote workforces lead to a lot more timezone issues as well.

I like flex time. I want to be able to work from home when I want to, but also want to go into the office for many things that are easier to do as a group.

Re: Why Working from Home Will Stick [pdf]

#190

Earlier quoted context omitted.

1. This is the main reason I prefer remote working. I don’t like socializing. I’m there to work, not to chit chat. You’re not my friend, your a fellow worker. 2. Time to get a better manager who trusts you. 3. Commuting is a waste of time. I roll out of bed and immediately start working. The company loses on time I could be working by having me commute. 4. Yeah, I definitely can’t relate to this one.

For something you're going to spend your life doing, it's a horrible prospect to not expect to make friends at work. As a child did you spend 12 years not making friends in school, since school is for learning and not socialization?

> For something you're going to spend your life doing, it's a horrible prospect to not expect to make friends at work.

Yeah well, as they say, life's a bitch and then you die. On the scale of things that are horrible prospects "not making friends at work" strikes me as something very privileged to be concerned about.

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