Stripe migrates Stripe Subscriptions users to more expensive Stripe Billing • Hacker News Board

Re: Stripe migrates Stripe Subscriptions users to more expensive Stripe Billing

#181

Post by cabalos » Thu, Nov 12, 2020, 8:40 PM UTC

pc wrote: post #172

cabalos wrote: post #161

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're welcome; appreciate the response. For what its worth, I have yet to get an email about the increase and HN is the first I've heard of it. I should have known something was up when Stripe sent out the email survey two days ago about subscription pricing. Very strange that you only sat on those results for a day before pulling the trigger on this. Interestingly, some of the survey answers included concepts of a…

> To me, the percentage makes little sense. You could be running 1,000,000 $10/mo subs, or 1,000 $1,000/mo subs and the cost is the same. This pricing model hits high value subscription companies significantly harder, even though Stripe's costs are lower. While this is true on some level, the challenge is that we'd have to set pricing at an inefficient point (i.e. we'd end up charging more than some businesses can af…

You're right; regardless of which model you pick, one side is going to be affected more. I'm sure you ran the math on it and saw Stripe customers skewed closer to the $10/mo sub than the $1,000/mo sub.

In the survey, there were a lot of options for dual pricing models. It must have been something you were considering. I'd be curious to hear why this was decided against?

To be honest, none of the new Billing features are relevant to us. We'd much rather have new features gated, like customer portal is, than paying 0.5% for features we never intend to use.

Re: Stripe migrates Stripe Subscriptions users to more expensive Stripe Billing

#182

Post by fphhotchips » Thu, Nov 12, 2020, 8:41 PM UTC

thebean11 wrote: post #145

TAForObvReasons wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Amazon payments apparently does: https://pay.amazon.com/help/201212280 > If a refund takes place, you will also be refunded the following transaction fees: > - The domestic processing fee (for example, the 2.9% fee) > - The cross-border processing fee (for example, the 3.9% fee) > Note that the Authorization fee and Disputed chargeback fee are non-refundable. So it looks like Amazon Payments holds onto the 30 cents b…

> $29.30 God I hope the decimal is just in the wrong place there

It is, but as they also added the extra 0, it indicates they were actually out by a factor of 10 in their math, it wasn't just a typo.

Re: Stripe migrates Stripe Subscriptions users to more expensive Stripe Billing

#183

Post by cambalache » Thu, Nov 12, 2020, 8:42 PM UTC

jm20 wrote: post #117

loceng wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have to believe this is Stripe leadership pumping up the revenues/profits to look peachy for their IPO, so they can all get a considerable exit while raising a war chest - meanwhile competitors will come along and try to take market share while Stripe can spend more on acquisitions and feature development for the same price. I think this play as part of the VC industrial complex leaves them more vulnerable than is…

If the Stripe leadership wanted to exit and be set for generations they could’ve done it years ago. I agree it could be a revenue boost to prepare for IPO but this isn’t some personal greed thing

Agree, it's collective greed

Re: Stripe migrates Stripe Subscriptions users to more expensive Stripe Billing

#184

Post by alooPotato » Thu, Nov 12, 2020, 8:42 PM UTC

pc wrote: post #93

(Stripe cofounder.) Hi folks -- as Edwin points out elsewhere in the thread, the article title isn't accurate. (I'll update or delete my comment if it's fixed.) [Update: it was changed. It used to read "Stripe is now charging 0.5% more for recurring charges."] You can happily make recurring charges yourself and no additional fees are incurred. Lots of Stripe customers do this and we don't charge anything extra for it…

Kind of agree with cabolos here. When we signed up for Stripe, the fees included access to Strip Subscriptions. We chose Stripe in part because of that. Now we either have to pay more for the same functionality or migrate of.

We'd be totally happy keeping the old functionality of Stripe subscriptions and not getting any of the new hotness. I think Stripe has done a great job supporting old versions of the API, seems like we should just be able to stay on our old pricing / subscriptions functionality as well.

Saying that we can build the infra ourselves to do reoccurring kind of goes against what we purchased Stripe for initially. I know technically you can change your pricing/billing however you want but this is more of "let's capture more revenue from old customers" than it is "we launched a bunch of stuff thats new so pay for the new stuff".

Re: Stripe migrates Stripe Subscriptions users to more expensive Stripe Billing

#185

Post by Silhouette » Thu, Nov 12, 2020, 8:46 PM UTC

pc wrote: post #155

merlinbeard wrote: post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We process a significant amount of charges through Stripe and this is hitting us hard. We’re basically being told that you’d like to keep some of our money for yourself. We were never told that we should expect such a fee increase. This smells a lot like bait and switch.

I'm sorry that it feels that way. Stripe Billing's pricing has been public since 2018. (We didn't charge any of our existing users from the outset precisely because we wanted to avoid any sense that there's a bait-and-switch. We wanted to wait until we really were confident that we had a good product that businesses are willing to pay for.)

I'm sorry that it feels that way. Stripe Billing's pricing has been public since 2018.

But lots of us have been using Stripe for a lot longer than that, and don't necessarily want or need all the extra things you're now putting under the "Billing" brand.

We haven't received any notification of a change from Stripe, but from the HN discussion, it looks like the option to just have a simple, automated recurring charge -- the key feature that attracted businesses like mine to Stripe in the first place -- is being removed. If that is the case then we'll naturally view the change as a 0.5% increase in Stripe's fees, pure and simple.

Re: Stripe migrates Stripe Subscriptions users to more expensive Stripe Billing

#186

Post by nfm » Thu, Nov 12, 2020, 8:46 PM UTC

pc wrote: post #93

(Stripe cofounder.) Hi folks -- as Edwin points out elsewhere in the thread, the article title isn't accurate. (I'll update or delete my comment if it's fixed.) [Update: it was changed. It used to read "Stripe is now charging 0.5% more for recurring charges."] You can happily make recurring charges yourself and no additional fees are incurred. Lots of Stripe customers do this and we don't charge anything extra for it…

Long term Stripe customer across multiple companies here.

I'm ok with paying for services like this that provide loads of value. I expect there's increasing diversity in terms of Stripe's customer base and how they use the product, and trying to pick a single percentage price point that works across all of them is no longer feasible.

That said, I'm quite unhappy with Stripe's pricing as an AU customer. We're paying exorbitant rates to convert USD to AUD (think retail bank rates despite transacting multiple millions a year, ~3x what we'd pay Transferwise). There's no option to settle in USD, and a lot of our expenses are in USD, so we then pay another currency conversion fee when we spend.

It's problematic to the extent that we're considering whether the ongoing costs and hassle of setting up a US entity, dealing with international tax, compliance, parent companies etc. would be worthwhile.

Re: Stripe migrates Stripe Subscriptions users to more expensive Stripe Billing

#187

Post by GeneralTspoon » Thu, Nov 12, 2020, 8:47 PM UTC

PaybackTony wrote: post #70

unethical_ban wrote: post #42

The idea that the ongoing cost of moving money between parties varies on the amount of money moving is very "sus" as they say. Whether they move $10,000 in a transaction or $3, roughly the same number of bits move, the same number of algorithms kick off, and so on. Is there a cost-based rationale for doing a percentage-based pricing model, or is it really "because they can"? I could brainstorm and say "fraud" or "def…

Much of the interchange rate is charged directly by Visa / Mastercard. The merchant bank will then add basis points to that, and often you get another mark-up by the individual ISO (independent sales organization) in a typical set up. So, then, why do card processors charge percentage? Well, when you see those Capital One commercials where you get 1% cashback on this type of purchase or 2% cashback on this, that's wh…

Just to note, interchange in the EU is capped at 0.2-0.3%. Stripe charge 1.4% + €0.25, so that's not the full story (there are scheme fees too, but I assume Stripe is still making some margin on the % fee - but open to correction on that)

Re: Stripe migrates Stripe Subscriptions users to more expensive Stripe Billing

#188

Post by dang » Thu, Nov 12, 2020, 8:49 PM UTC

[deleted] wrote: post #162

dang wrote: post #152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I know nothing about the intricacies of Stripe product offerings, so need to rely on others to come up with an accurate title, which is (as always) our intention. The submitted title implied that Stripe is raising its prices on all recurring charges. As I understand it, that's not true; therefore that title was misleading and needed to be changed. (Site guideline on this: " Please use the original title, unless it is…

[deleted]

That contradicts what's said elsewhere in the thread. My understanding is that prices are going up for the earlier users of an older product who are now being moved to a newer product. It's understandable why they and others wouldn't be happy about that, but it's a different situation from what you're describing here. If that's wrong, I'm happy to be corrected. Like I said, I have no firsthand knowledge, so have to rely on people who do.

Re: Stripe migrates Stripe Subscriptions users to more expensive Stripe Billing

#189

Post by pc » Thu, Nov 12, 2020, 8:51 PM UTC

nfm wrote: post #186

pc wrote: post #93

(Stripe cofounder.) Hi folks -- as Edwin points out elsewhere in the thread, the article title isn't accurate. (I'll update or delete my comment if it's fixed.) [Update: it was changed. It used to read "Stripe is now charging 0.5% more for recurring charges."] You can happily make recurring charges yourself and no additional fees are incurred. Lots of Stripe customers do this and we don't charge anything extra for it…

Long term Stripe customer across multiple companies here. I'm ok with paying for services like this that provide loads of value. I expect there's increasing diversity in terms of Stripe's customer base and how they use the product, and trying to pick a single percentage price point that works across all of them is no longer feasible. That said, I'm quite unhappy with Stripe's pricing as an AU customer. We're paying e…

Yep, heard loud and clear. We've been investing a lot in USD (and other currency settlement) in various markets (and actually just released it in Singapore). We're working on it in Australia too.

Re: Stripe migrates Stripe Subscriptions users to more expensive Stripe Billing

#190

Post by pc » Thu, Nov 12, 2020, 8:55 PM UTC

alooPotato wrote: post #184

pc wrote: post #93

(Stripe cofounder.) Hi folks -- as Edwin points out elsewhere in the thread, the article title isn't accurate. (I'll update or delete my comment if it's fixed.) [Update: it was changed. It used to read "Stripe is now charging 0.5% more for recurring charges."] You can happily make recurring charges yourself and no additional fees are incurred. Lots of Stripe customers do this and we don't charge anything extra for it…

Kind of agree with cabolos here. When we signed up for Stripe, the fees included access to Strip Subscriptions. We chose Stripe in part because of that. Now we either have to pay more for the same functionality or migrate of. We'd be totally happy keeping the old functionality of Stripe subscriptions and not getting any of the new hotness. I think Stripe has done a great job supporting old versions of the API, seems…

We've been testing this change for a few months to make sure that, broadly speaking, the vast majority of current customers are willing to pay for the new functionality. We don't want to even try to charge for things that customers don't feel they're getting good value from.

There's obviously heterogeneity, though, and we'll be as reasonable as possible. If this would be really disruptive for your business, or if you need more time to plan a migration (if you don't think Billing makes sense for you), or something like that, I'd be happy to connect you with the team -- we could extend your current pricing through the end of 2021.