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Stripe migrates Stripe Subscriptions users to more expensive Stripe Billing

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Re: Stripe migrates Stripe Subscriptions users to more expensive Stripe Billing

#91

Post by globile »

sigwinch28 wrote: post #49
globile wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Same thing has happened for Radar for example. We set up our whole infrastructure with their beta 3DS and Radar products, and then one day (a few months back), it is $ 0.07 per txn in Radar as well as no returned fees on refunds. Stuck with nowhere to go. Not against improving margins, but customers that have walked hand in hand with Stripe for so long and seen them thru their early growing pains should definitely be…

Why should they be grandfathered?

Oh yes! To Grandfather or not to Grandfather! That dilemma!

I understand they are still using the same functionality they had at signup time, and are still on the same API version, so not taking advantage of new direct functionality.

Yes, of course there is a bunch of indirect functionality or magic behind the scenes, but from a company lifetime perspective, when you enter into an agreement with a service provider, you would expect a relatively constant delivery of services, at the agreed prices, especially if your needs have not changed.

There are many companies that upon adding new functionality or services, decide to grandfather. New direct functionality comes at new prices, even if you are inherently benefitting from the new stuff.

Three I can think of, Zendesk, Customer.io and Geckoboard grandfathered our plans.

When it is easy to switch providers, grandfathering is not that important, but if you're tightly integrated, which pretty much everyone doing volume on stripe is, then you're screwed. You can't leave.

Even if you negotiate custom pricing, there is a knock on the door one day saying, "new pricing in place. Take it or leave"

Re: Stripe migrates Stripe Subscriptions users to more expensive Stripe Billing

#92

Post by Loughla »

polote wrote: post #51
alooPotato wrote: post #12

We (Streak yc s11) signed up for Stripe way back in the day and have just been paying their standard payment processing fees for years. We haven't upgraded our API version or used any of their new billing features or anything like that. Basically we get the same value from Stripe we did from the day we integrated. I thought our pricing was going to be grandfathered but this change will cost us tens of thousands of do…

> Unfortunately, we're kind of hostage to it. The day you decided to go with Stripe you started being hostage of them, but this is not a bad thing, this is business, you choose a partner, they are allowed to change the terms if the contract permit it. People on HN always think they deserve to be treated better than others

>People on HN always think they deserve to be treated better than others

I have noticed a significant attitude of, "I originally signed up for this product with 'x' cost and 'x' features, and you have zero right to change anything about that."

It seems like a basic contract negotiation process would ferret that out - I thought that was a business thing to do. I work in higher ed, and we absolutely have to have contracts for all third-party vendors; any changes are negotiated with the start of new contracts. If we can figure it out, surely startups can - we're not really all that good at efficiency.

Re: Stripe migrates Stripe Subscriptions users to more expensive Stripe Billing

#93

Post by pc »

(Stripe cofounder.)

Hi folks -- as Edwin points out elsewhere in the thread, the article title isn't accurate. (I'll update or delete my comment if it's fixed.)

[Update: it was changed. It used to read "Stripe is now charging 0.5% more for recurring charges."]

You can happily make recurring charges yourself and no additional fees are incurred. Lots of Stripe customers do this and we don't charge anything extra for it.

If you decide to use Stripe Billing, which is a separate product, we charge for that. Stripe Billing's pricing hasn't changed in a few years. What's changing is that we're ending the several-year grace period where we didn't charge anything for Stripe Billing for businesses who started to use this functionality before 2018.

Charging for Billing helps us fund a lot more investment in it -- we've gone from very basic cron-like functionality to a pretty full-featured subscriptions management tool. (You can read more at https://stripe.com/billing.) Billing is now sophisticated enough that companies like Slack and Atlassian are using and paying for it. We've built things like "Smart Dunning" (which improves revenue recovery for failed charges by about 14%), better analytics, international payment method and invoicing support, and a whole host of other features. There are now more than 30 people working on improving Billing.

Importantly, Stripe Billing is (and will remain) significantly cheaper than most of the other competitors in the space.

Re: Stripe migrates Stripe Subscriptions users to more expensive Stripe Billing

#94

Post by xyst »

We really need a way to facilitate money transfer between one or more parties. There are way too many middlemen (credit card processor, credit card network, bank fees, merchant fees, exchange network fees, ...) that artificially inflate the cost of products and services.

This is likely worsened when you consider transactions between parties in different countries.

Re: Stripe migrates Stripe Subscriptions users to more expensive Stripe Billing

#95

Post by parhamn »

Yikes! This thread. First time I’ve seen negative comments on Stripe like this on HN. I guess this is what happens when you grow! You eventually become one of ‘them’, start squeezing for the same reasons the folks in the last cycle did, and the cycle repeats.

Re: Stripe migrates Stripe Subscriptions users to more expensive Stripe Billing

#96

Post by onepointsixC »

Alupis wrote: post #40
klinskyc wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you're doing significant volume, which I assume Streak does, you can negotiate significant volume discounts. You have been leaving a ton of money on the table if you have not done that.

Maybe - they seemed really not interested in negotiating much at all and I got the impression they feel that their customers should be lucky enough to be allowed to use Stripe as a processor. My company went through negotiations with Stripe earlier this year. We were more than 1.5% + $0.10 away from our current processor, and they wouldn't budge to even match our existing rates. They kept saying they are a better val…

Did you end up staying with your current processor or swiping to Stripe?

Re: Stripe migrates Stripe Subscriptions users to more expensive Stripe Billing

#97

Post by JumpCrisscross »

unethical_ban wrote: post #42

The idea that the ongoing cost of moving money between parties varies on the amount of money moving is very "sus" as they say. Whether they move $10,000 in a transaction or $3, roughly the same number of bits move, the same number of algorithms kick off, and so on. Is there a cost-based rationale for doing a percentage-based pricing model, or is it really "because they can"? I could brainstorm and say "fraud" or "def…

> Is there a cost-based rationale for doing a percentage-based pricing model

Liability scales with transaction size.

Re: Stripe migrates Stripe Subscriptions users to more expensive Stripe Billing

#98

Post by dmlittle »

PaybackTony wrote: post #70
unethical_ban wrote: post #42

The idea that the ongoing cost of moving money between parties varies on the amount of money moving is very "sus" as they say. Whether they move $10,000 in a transaction or $3, roughly the same number of bits move, the same number of algorithms kick off, and so on. Is there a cost-based rationale for doing a percentage-based pricing model, or is it really "because they can"? I could brainstorm and say "fraud" or "def…

Much of the interchange rate is charged directly by Visa / Mastercard. The merchant bank will then add basis points to that, and often you get another mark-up by the individual ISO (independent sales organization) in a typical set up. So, then, why do card processors charge percentage? Well, when you see those Capital One commercials where you get 1% cashback on this type of purchase or 2% cashback on this, that's wh…

Isn't that rate part of the 2.9% + 30c fee? Not the additional 0.5% for Stripe Billing.

Re: Stripe migrates Stripe Subscriptions users to more expensive Stripe Billing

#99

Post by floatingatoll »

edwinwee wrote: post #29

Edwin from Stripe here. It’s worth distinguishing between charging money on Stripe (for which you incur payments pricing) and using Stripe Billing (which is a separately-paid product). Stripe Billing has had this pricing for a few years. For some longtime users of Subscriptions, we originally didn’t change their pricing but are doing so now. We think charging a separate fee for our Billing product is fair, given comp…

To clarify, is "Stripe Subscriptions" a subset-of/component-of/deprecated-into "Stripe Billing"?

Re: Stripe migrates Stripe Subscriptions users to more expensive Stripe Billing

#100

Post by tengbretson »

unethical_ban wrote: post #42

The idea that the ongoing cost of moving money between parties varies on the amount of money moving is very "sus" as they say. Whether they move $10,000 in a transaction or $3, roughly the same number of bits move, the same number of algorithms kick off, and so on. Is there a cost-based rationale for doing a percentage-based pricing model, or is it really "because they can"? I could brainstorm and say "fraud" or "def…

I think its a form of value-based pricing.
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