Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Five Eyes and Japan call for Facebook backdoor to monitor crime

asia.nikkei.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

181–190 of 281 posts

Re: Five Eyes and Japan call for Facebook backdoor to monitor crime

#181

Post by jowsie »

innocenat wrote: post #173
elmo2you wrote: post #154

> Security alliance worries encrypted messaging apps can be used by bad actors Same goes for kitchen knives. I don't hear them call for banning those, or have every sale of one tracked and monitored (which would only illustrate the lunacy of their "argument" even more).

You are joking, but it's illegal in Japan to carry a locked-blade knives or folding knives with blade longer than 5.5cm. You need a solid reason to carry those, like if you just buy it from the shop (in the original package), or if you are a chef, etc.

Same in the UK, but the police can also decide you don't have a valid reason for a legal to carry pocket knife, and charge you anyway.

Re: Five Eyes and Japan call for Facebook backdoor to monitor crime

#183

Post by _vbdg »

corobo wrote: post #174
mmm_grayons wrote: post #171

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That doesn't matter. How many people does something have to be able to kill before being banned? The truck attack in France was deadlier than any mass shooting in America. There are costs to freedom, including the potential for abuse. Just like predictive policing is wrong because it goes after those who haven't committed crimes, banning guns is wrong. The death of a ten, a hundred, a thousand, or more people doesn't…

Ok but how about if you combine all truck attacks vs all shootouts Not like Americans can do anything with the guns. You gonna stop what's happening right now with your pistol? Go on then. Literally the time to shine that liberty. You've got a guy threatening to be Hitler 2.0 (hi Godwin!) and making moves towards that.. nothing Oh they'd just make it worse? Maybe you shouldn't have them so easily accessible then http…

I'd argue a fairer metric would probably be to compare gun deaths to car deaths; nearly twice as many people died to cars in 2019 [0] [1].

I definitely don't think Trump will be "Hitler 2.0". He probably won't even be in office after this election.

Again, however, my primary argument is normative and values-based. I'm not arguing that we only have gun rights because they don't kill x number of people. Even if a hundred thousand people were killed by mass shootings I wouldn't support gun restrictions. We don't restrict people's liberties because others break the law. The thing most gun grabbers miss and that most gun rights proponents won't say is that our primary value is liberty not saving more lives.

[0]: https://www.thetrace.org/2020/01/gun-deaths-2019-increase/

[1]: https://www.nsc.org/road-safety/safety-topics/fatality-estim...

Re: Five Eyes and Japan call for Facebook backdoor to monitor crime

#184

Post by dontcarethrow2 »

ENGNR wrote: post #143
netcan wrote: post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>>" What’s the endgame here? Open-source encrypted messaging software is widely available. The cat is out of the bag. Every country on Earth could outlaw the technology and it would still be trivially easy for criminals to use it. " There is no endgame, strictly. Like a "war on drugs" or terrorism, crime will never raises a white flag and surrender. So, no endgame. For insight on the point , I think it's useful to co…

And all the while the most serious avenues for crime get forgotten, if anything they become an even greater risk because we're lulled into a false sense of security

Wage theft. I say we allow these backdoors but it has to come with a Civilian Unit uses it only on high profile targets. Lets have some CEO/politic heads roll for once please. Not Dimebag Dave.

Re: Five Eyes and Japan call for Facebook backdoor to monitor crime

#185

Post by mstade »

innocenat wrote: post #173
elmo2you wrote: post #154

> Security alliance worries encrypted messaging apps can be used by bad actors Same goes for kitchen knives. I don't hear them call for banning those, or have every sale of one tracked and monitored (which would only illustrate the lunacy of their "argument" even more).

You are joking, but it's illegal in Japan to carry a locked-blade knives or folding knives with blade longer than 5.5cm. You need a solid reason to carry those, like if you just buy it from the shop (in the original package), or if you are a chef, etc.

Sweden is the same, carrying almost any kind of knife in a public space is generally illegal. There are exceptions, such as construction workers who need to carry knives and other pointy things for work, but generally it's not allowed.

Re: Five Eyes and Japan call for Facebook backdoor to monitor crime

#186

Post by fsflover »

soraminazuki wrote: post #146
fsflover wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Please stop spreading learned helplessness and donate to Electronic Frontier Foundation: https://eff.org .

Yes, but the EFF’s main focus is the US. What could people in the remaining five countries do?

For Europe, there is https://edri.org.

Re: Five Eyes and Japan call for Facebook backdoor to monitor crime

#187

Post by umvi »

elmo2you wrote: post #154

> Security alliance worries encrypted messaging apps can be used by bad actors Same goes for kitchen knives. I don't hear them call for banning those, or have every sale of one tracked and monitored (which would only illustrate the lunacy of their "argument" even more).

Actually a lot of countries do ban knives. And guns. And anything else bad actors might abuse.

Re: Five Eyes and Japan call for Facebook backdoor to monitor crime

#188

Post by umvi »

_vbdg wrote: post #183
corobo wrote: post #174

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ok but how about if you combine all truck attacks vs all shootouts Not like Americans can do anything with the guns. You gonna stop what's happening right now with your pistol? Go on then. Literally the time to shine that liberty. You've got a guy threatening to be Hitler 2.0 (hi Godwin!) and making moves towards that.. nothing Oh they'd just make it worse? Maybe you shouldn't have them so easily accessible then http…

I'd argue a fairer metric would probably be to compare gun deaths to car deaths; nearly twice as many people died to cars in 2019 [0] [1]. I definitely don't think Trump will be "Hitler 2.0". He probably won't even be in office after this election. Again, however, my primary argument is normative and values-based. I'm not arguing that we only have gun rights because they don't kill x number of people. Even if a hundr…

Well you're in a dying breed it seems. These days liberty is not worth more than death. In other words, it's increasingly popular to trade some liberty in exchange for saving lives. Take away people's gun liberty, take away people's liberty to refuse wearing a mask, take away people's liberty to say hateful/hurtful things to the vulnerable on social media and you can save thousands, even tens of thousands of lives per year.

The problem with liberty is that some % of people (bad actors) abuse it to cause harm to others

Re: Five Eyes and Japan call for Facebook backdoor to monitor crime

#189

Post by [deleted] »

Lev1a wrote: post #164
mmm_grayons wrote: post #160

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I mean, why do you think they've been trying to progressively restrict guns for years?

Firearms make it easy/way easier to kill/seriously injure * a large number of people * from a distance * with basically no effort With knives on the other hand it's hard (especially for untrained attackers) killing/injuring * even a low number of people (IF even more than one) * from arm's reach * with large physical effort. Following that firearm restriction to those who may actually need them (law enforcement etc.)…

[deleted]

Re: Five Eyes and Japan call for Facebook backdoor to monitor crime

#190

Post by hannofcart »

mmm_grayons wrote: post #171
Lev1a wrote: post #164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Firearms make it easy/way easier to kill/seriously injure * a large number of people * from a distance * with basically no effort With knives on the other hand it's hard (especially for untrained attackers) killing/injuring * even a low number of people (IF even more than one) * from arm's reach * with large physical effort. Following that firearm restriction to those who may actually need them (law enforcement etc.)…

That doesn't matter. How many people does something have to be able to kill before being banned? The truck attack in France was deadlier than any mass shooting in America. There are costs to freedom, including the potential for abuse. Just like predictive policing is wrong because it goes after those who haven't committed crimes, banning guns is wrong. The death of a ten, a hundred, a thousand, or more people doesn't…

The premise of your argument seems to be that the number of victims that a weapon can be unleashed on should not be a criterion for banning it. Am I getting that right?

If so, can I please be allowed to have my own private nuclear warhead? I promise to only use it as a deterrent against a similarly armed government getting too "oppressive".

I promise not to set it off in a bout of drunken depression.

Post reply on HN