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Five Eyes and Japan call for Facebook backdoor to monitor crime

asia.nikkei.com

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Re: Five Eyes and Japan call for Facebook backdoor to monitor crime

#161

Post by BLKNSLVR »

zo1 wrote: post #156
SN76477 wrote: post #46

Crime will be the price that a free society pays. We need a certain tolerance of petty crime if we are going to truest be free.

I don't accept that, and I won't accept it for my community. I live in a crime-ridden country. Here, we as honest citizens are building fences, walls, gated-communities, electric fencing, metal bars around our doors and windows, hiring private security, etc to combat the crime that the wider society is tacitly tolerating. People want security, and we're willing to forego things such as "privacy" in return for that. N…

The kind of crime that fences, walls, gated communities, electric fencing, and metal bars serve to protect against are the kinds of crimes that are deprioritised by corrupt governments who would rather have their law enforcement look into monitoring and suppressing political dissent because that's more of a direct threat to their power.

If a society is willing to give up their privacy then governments can be lazier because they'll be more aware of their direct threats, therefore they need less awareness of actual societal problems, which are indirect threats.

Re: Five Eyes and Japan call for Facebook backdoor to monitor crime

#162

Post by orwin »

mrtksn wrote: post #153
brabel wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I don't buy the "Chernobyl and Fukushima are note big deal" message that the low death toll numbers convey. Why not? What evidence is there to the contrary? These death tolls vary by a lot, but even the high end is quite low compared to fossil fuels. The fear people have of radiation seems to be much greater than reality would justify. This causes very serious problems, like evacuating hundreds of thousands of peop…

Because direct death at the accident is not what makes it big deal but the numbers are used to argue just that.

what is a big deal then? Unusable area? Mining coal or rare earth for solar panel already do that for you on a two order of magnitude difference at least (not counting detroyed montaintops and water pollution). Population displacement? Yeah, again an order of magnitude inferior to dammage caused by mining (this time counting water pollution). Not counting when hydro power fail: two order of magnitude differential just counting china barrage failure.

Would you dissmiss hydro power because of the barrage incident then? Because last time i checked, the death toll, the displacment toll and the lost land caused by hydro power were a lot more than nuclear for sensibly the same power production.

Is it waste that grind your gear? Yeah, speak to the people who live near cadmium mines where nothing can grow anymore. Also a Co2 surplus in high atmosphere last around 100 000 years (order of magnitude here). Compare that to the dangerous radioactive waste. Also, coal mining and burning cause the area around to be more radioactive than the area around fukushima, or French uranium mines. Weird, no?

You know why you really don't like nuclear power? Its because with solar panel, oil and coal, the externalities are paid by poor populations in China, India, Africa or south America. So its better for you (or me). Its because hydro power failure only happened in poor countries. Or rather, country you don't really know or care about. Italia, Brazil, China barrage failure each have death toll superior to fukushima + chernobyl counting displacement caused deaths (avoidable deaths).

Re: Five Eyes and Japan call for Facebook backdoor to monitor crime

#163

Post by LatteLazy »

elmo2you wrote: post #154

> Security alliance worries encrypted messaging apps can be used by bad actors Same goes for kitchen knives. I don't hear them call for banning those, or have every sale of one tracked and monitored (which would only illustrate the lunacy of their "argument" even more).

Actually here in the UK the government did briefly consider banning all knives with points. I know right? Welcome to the nanny state.

(from 2005 but it was brought up again last year...)

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/4581871.stm#:~:text=%22Off...

Re: Five Eyes and Japan call for Facebook backdoor to monitor crime

#164

Post by Lev1a »

mmm_grayons wrote: post #160
elmo2you wrote: post #154

> Security alliance worries encrypted messaging apps can be used by bad actors Same goes for kitchen knives. I don't hear them call for banning those, or have every sale of one tracked and monitored (which would only illustrate the lunacy of their "argument" even more).

I mean, why do you think they've been trying to progressively restrict guns for years?

Firearms make it easy/way easier to kill/seriously injure

* a large number of people

* from a distance

* with basically no effort

With knives on the other hand it's hard (especially for untrained attackers) killing/injuring

* even a low number of people (IF even more than one)

* from arm's reach

* with large physical effort.

Following that firearm restriction to those who may actually need them (law enforcement etc.) is then quite obvious.

Re: Five Eyes and Japan call for Facebook backdoor to monitor crime

#165

Post by mrtksn »

orwin wrote: post #162
mrtksn wrote: post #153

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because direct death at the accident is not what makes it big deal but the numbers are used to argue just that.

what is a big deal then? Unusable area? Mining coal or rare earth for solar panel already do that for you on a two order of magnitude difference at least (not counting detroyed montaintops and water pollution). Population displacement? Yeah, again an order of magnitude inferior to dammage caused by mining (this time counting water pollution). Not counting when hydro power fail: two order of magnitude differential jus…

Lots of whataboutism here. In that vein let’s re-introduce asbestos because smoking kills much more people and doesn’t even insulate anything.

Anyway, the big issue is that it could have been(and still can be) much worse. it’s a scalable disaster with consequences outlasting human generations. If you need heroic efforts and enormous resources to contain something and there’s a possibility of that not succeed then you don’t want it happen and it’s a big deal.

Re: Five Eyes and Japan call for Facebook backdoor to monitor crime

#166

Post by whydoineedone »

elmo2you wrote: post #154

> Security alliance worries encrypted messaging apps can be used by bad actors Same goes for kitchen knives. I don't hear them call for banning those, or have every sale of one tracked and monitored (which would only illustrate the lunacy of their "argument" even more).

Kitchen knives and communication are completely different things. Bad actors spreading subversive ideas that could shake the fabric of society and undermine the national security of countries is not the same as being able to carry a knife around in your house. Bad state actors can and do exploit this anonymity.

Re: Five Eyes and Japan call for Facebook backdoor to monitor crime

#167

Post by megous »

kevinsundar wrote: post #11
Natsu wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the USA, email that has been stored for longer than some (fairly short) period I don't remember offhand doesn't require a warrant to access. Just think about that for a while.

Yep, after 180 days it only requires a subpoena (which does not require any court). See the Stored Communications Act.

Solved by pop3 protocol.

Re: Five Eyes and Japan call for Facebook backdoor to monitor crime

#168

Post by pmachinery »

varjag wrote: post #152
pmachinery wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That link doesn't mention the KGB, the deaths and executions it refers to (largely of Communist Party and Red Army personnel) occurred before the KGB even existed, and nothing like what is described happened during the KGB era (1954-1991).

KGB is the direct successor to MGB, which was spun off from punitive branch of NKVD, which itself was a reorganized CheKa. Huge swathes of KGB operatives worked through all of its organizational incarnations. They did (and Russian FSB still does) refer themselves as 'chekists' informally. Their professional holiday is the CheKa foundation day.

Huge swathes of post-war German police, judiciary, political personnel were Nazi Party members[0], but we don't attribute crimes carried out in the Third Reich to West (or East) Germany or its institutions.

If you want to pretend the KGB, or the regime it operated under[1], was just the same as the NKVD under Stalin, then please provide examples of the same crimes (mass killings) occurring from 1954-1991.

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Braunbuch

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/De-Stalinization

Re: Five Eyes and Japan call for Facebook backdoor to monitor crime

#169

Post by orwin »

mkhalil wrote: post #155
roenxi wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not really sure what your point is here. And the reason to be pro-nuclear is the vast quantities of environmentally friendly energy. The argument isn't that Fukushima or Chernobyl won't happen again (although they probably won't) - the argument is that after including Fukushima and Chernobyl nuclear power is still , according to the evidence, safer and more environmentally friendly than solar or wind. The damage…

> the argument is that after including Fukushima and Chernobyl nuclear power is still, according to the evidence, safer and more environmentally friendly than solar or wind. That's really not the argument, but also please don't pretend that this is a fact. This might of been true in the long ago past, but solar has and is innovating and advancing way faster than nuclear. Solar is also on the order of 10x cheaper to b…

300 years for dangerous nuclear waste, 2000 if you want to go to average mS levels.

You have your orders of magnitude wrong. Solar panels (as in photovoltaic energy) is the worst "green" energy when accounting for waste and probably the one that caused the most cancer with children near zinc/cadmium mines, but fear not, in the following years they will start killing people near landfills[0][1]. More wastefull in term of minerals too, but veolia might have something to say bout this (Best company working with renewable imo). Maybe in 50 years.

You can't smelt rare earth without a lot of energy, whereas you can reduce iron and CaCO3 with hydrogen and make steel and cement almost carbon-free. And as Fe and CaCO3 are present almost everywhere, you also don't have to globablize the production.

Ow, and if you evalutate the CO2 ton to be around 100$ (i think its at least 4 time this price), solar energy is twice as expensive to build and install as nuclear per kWh(and if we start reducing iron and cement with hydrogen, the difference will only grow). Thats only installed power, not produced power, also not counting energy storage.

I really like wind though and geotermic energy though, i think thermo solar is a good idea (not as good as passive) and maybe next gen solar won't use as much rare earth. Also if you're really interested, you should check how a power grid works.

[0] https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S00489... [1] https://www.wired.com/story/solar-panels-are-starting-to-die...

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