Live data from Hacker News

China Uighurs: A model's video gives a rare glimpse inside internment

bbc.com

181–187 of 187 posts

Re: China Uighurs: A model's video gives a rare glimpse inside internment

#181

I've been wondering how I could bring this up with the mainland Chinese I know. It's particularly difficult, because for some of them I'm in a supervisory/managerial role, but I don't want to put pressure on them, which would raise all sort of other ethical dilemmas and would likely not be effective. Anyone else can share experiences?

It's a losing battle. Without going into workplace relationships, the public perception of the Chinese population to their government is overwhelmingly positive. I've experienced it in my own friends and relatives, even those who have gone to university in North America for degrees like law. For an outsider without cultural understanding, it's nearly impossible.

It's hard to change minds when the education system doesn't support free thinking that challenges authority, when identity is caught up with national pride and the us vs them mentality. That's why it's important to use language like CCP instead of China to separate the people from the government.

The most common defense is whataboutism. Talk about Uigher camps in Xingjiang or the Hong Kong protests? "But America has racism, and police beatdowns." The argument against democracy is that the people aren't educated enough to handle voting, for example and bring up covid cases in the US.

I had a conversation a while back with my cousin, who didn't like Morey's (NBA GM) comments about Hong Kong and supported the Rockets ban. me: "But it's his personal opinions, can't he say what he wants?" cousin: "No, because he's a known person. It's like Xi saying California isn't a part of the US." cousin: "That's fine, because everybody knows it's not true. We'll just think he's dumb." cousin (jokingly): "that's just the cultural difference between east and west"

Unfortunately, it's hard to bring up any real nuanced conversation, and especially hard to change any minds. (i.e. like how none of the HK protestors key demands were to actually separate, something many people in China thought)

Re: China Uighurs: A model's video gives a rare glimpse inside internment

#182

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would say it proves my point. Most people couldn’t care less about what happens outside their borders unless the country responsible also do things that impact their life. No on gives a damn when North Korea starve its citizens to death, subject them to hard labor and execute them left and right. But the western world care a lot when they imprison/torture a western citizen. Similarly, no one cares about China kidna…

I will remind you that this thread is about what is happening with the Chinese Uighurs, a group that has no impact on Western lives. >Most people couldn’t care less about what happens outside their borders unless the country responsible also do things that impact their life The US is the country responsible here. US military commanders have said that the war in Yemen would end tomorrow without US assistance, and the…

It does because these Uyghurs are subjected to hard labor where they’re producing goods for Nike, Gap, H&M, Amazon, Puma, etc. It’s a lot harder to look past these things when you know they’re happening (similarly to how it’s hard for football fans to look past the slave labor used for the World Cup in Qatar). The fact that their treatment feels equivalent to the holocaust makes it even worse.

It also adds great frustration/anger when western companies fight for human rights in USA while they stay silent on China’s human rights issues (and even censor western citizens voicing support for them).

Re: China Uighurs: A model's video gives a rare glimpse inside internment

#183

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I will remind you that this thread is about what is happening with the Chinese Uighurs, a group that has no impact on Western lives. >Most people couldn’t care less about what happens outside their borders unless the country responsible also do things that impact their life The US is the country responsible here. US military commanders have said that the war in Yemen would end tomorrow without US assistance, and the…

It does because these Uyghurs are subjected to hard labor where they’re producing goods for Nike, Gap, H&M, Amazon, Puma, etc. It’s a lot harder to look past these things when you know they’re happening (similarly to how it’s hard for football fans to look past the slave labor used for the World Cup in Qatar). The fact that their treatment feels equivalent to the holocaust makes it even worse. It also adds great frus…

> does because these Uyghurs are subjected to hard labor where they’re producing goods for Nike, Gap, H&M, Amazon, Puma, etc.

I have not heard these allegations of slave labor surrounding these internment camps. Maybe you're thinking of US prisons.

>The fact that their treatment feels equivalent to the holocaust makes it even worse

I'm still not defending China here, but their actions seem limited to cultural genocide not actual genocide. The US treatment of Muslims in Yemen is far worse.

Re: China Uighurs: A model's video gives a rare glimpse inside internment

#184
post #174

Earlier quoted context omitted.

* * * But can you trust the source. It is after all a model, who's entire career revolves around faking appearances for the camera. A determined news team and a suitably sympathetic model could have produced a similar report on any story. Perhaps find a more credible source to support.

> But can you trust the source. His family haven't heard from him in 5 months, it seems quite extreme for a small amount of popularity. > Perhaps find a more credible source to support. Just to name a few: [1] [2] [3] [4] [5]. [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=inmP0LvZEhY [2] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WmId2ZP3h0c&feature=youtu.be [3] https://twitter.com/BBCPolitics/status/1284784810200838145 [4] https://www.b…

Exactly ... so why DIDN'T you post reports of large scale verifiable oppression instead of a posing model?

I mean, lets face it, for whatever reason you chose the news report that was about as credible as Trump ...

Re: China Uighurs: A model's video gives a rare glimpse inside internment

#185
post #77
post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Note that the outcomes you describe are only bad at preserving the status quo at that workplace.

The outcomes will also give them a heightened sense of nationalism and feed into the idea that the West is just out to get China and Chinese people, which the media plays up quite a bit. As an American, sitting down next to a European on vacation for more than a few minutes is never fun. Once they inevitably ask "Where are you from?", they follow it up with a lecture on American politics before I can even finish my s…

I think your argument here amounts to a form of internalized oppression and a bunch of unintentional sophistry that tries to legitimize it. Considering the history of computer science as a consequence of the Enlightenment, it is quite ironic how working programmers have had to become.

Re: China Uighurs: A model's video gives a rare glimpse inside internment

#186

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> To those complaining about the anti-China narrative, it's the CCP (government) which are at fault, not the people What would you say if the people widely supported it? Do you have evidence otherwise? Most mainlanders don't seem to care at all, that's pretty common knowledge and not some fear of speaking out issue. There's plenty of online forums where they anonymously express themselves and widely mock and criticis…

This isn't unique to Chinese mainlanders. If you look at other countries: U.S, Sri Lanka, Israel, Brazil, France etc., you're going to find a significant portion of the population that seems to support far-right populism based on ethnic nationalism. Look at Trump, who is currently attempting to push an anti-China narrative in the US, but still gave Xi Jinping the green light to build camps for the Uighurs, and said i…

Please do note that is a John Bolton claim with no independent confirmation and denied by Trump. And no single nation - not even the US - has any power to give a "green" or "red" light to China currently.

The only way any pressure would work is with a league of nations applying sanctions.

Re: China Uighurs: A model's video gives a rare glimpse inside internment

#187
post #174

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> But can you trust the source. His family haven't heard from him in 5 months, it seems quite extreme for a small amount of popularity. > Perhaps find a more credible source to support. Just to name a few: [1] [2] [3] [4] [5]. [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=inmP0LvZEhY [2] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WmId2ZP3h0c&feature=youtu.be [3] https://twitter.com/BBCPolitics/status/1284784810200838145 [4] https://www.b…

Exactly ... so why DIDN'T you post reports of large scale verifiable oppression instead of a posing model? I mean, lets face it, for whatever reason you chose the news report that was about as credible as Trump ...

> why DIDN'T you post reports of large scale verifiable

> oppression instead of a posing model?

I'm not OP, I didn't post that particular link, I just commented here on the subject.

> for whatever reason you chose the news report that was

> about as credible as Trump

I don't see why you are comparing the social media model to Trump.

Post reply on HN