Ibuprofen alters human testicular physiology to produce compensated hypogonadism • Hacker News Board

Re: Ibuprofen alters human testicular physiology to produce compensated hypogonadism

#181

Post by cyphar » Sun, Dec 30, 2018, 1:39 PM UTC

naasking wrote: post #167

drb91 wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

OTOH acetaminophen is known to be toxic; is there an alternative here for non narcotic inflammation, fever, and pain relief that is shown NOT to have tradeoffs for use?

> OTOH acetaminophen is known to be toxic This is news to me. What exactly does "toxic" mean? Do you have a citation I can read? Acetaminophen is not for inflammation anyway.

Paracetamol (or acetaminophen) can cause liver failure if you take too high a dose[1] (this is one of the reasons you are told not to drink alcohol when taking paracetamol -- if your liver is struggling to process alcohol you're more susceptible to liver failure).

In fact, paracetamol poisoning is the primary cause of death in overdoses (in the US, UK, Australia and New Zealand)[2]. And in 2006, [3] found it was the most commonly used compound for intentional overdosing (i.e. suicide by overdose).

But of course, this depends on taking a very high dose -- paracetamol isn't dangerous in moderate doses.

[1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paracetamol_poisoning [2]: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18312195 [3]: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16805658

Re: Ibuprofen alters human testicular physiology to produce compensated hypogonadism

#182

Post by sodosopa » Sun, Dec 30, 2018, 1:39 PM UTC

naasking wrote: post #173

sodosopa wrote: post #164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At normal doses, Acetaminophen can trigger Stevens-Johnson Syndrome and toxic epidermal necrolysis. You're lucky if you wind up with rashes as opposed to skin falling off.

> At normal doses, Acetaminophen can trigger Stevens-Johnson Syndrome Probably not: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/28963996/

In my case, it does.

Re: Ibuprofen alters human testicular physiology to produce compensated hypogonadism

#183

Post by tchaffee » Sun, Dec 30, 2018, 1:42 PM UTC

sureaboutthis wrote: post #176

tchaffee wrote: post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No tradeoffs? I don't think such a thing exists. Aspirin kills people every year. The only pain reliever I know of that has never killed anyone is cannabis. I don't think it does much for fever though?

Inhaling smoke into your lungs is never a good thing. Your lungs (cough) are trying to tell you something.

Where did I say anything about smoking? And I also didn't say cannabis has no tradeoffs either. But it won't kill you. That's a pretty strong pro in my book if you are looking for occasional pain relief.

Re: Ibuprofen alters human testicular physiology to produce compensated hypogonadism

#184

Post by sodosopa » Sun, Dec 30, 2018, 1:43 PM UTC

naasking wrote: post #170

cycrutchfield wrote: post #154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Cannabis causes low T and gynecomastia, so not really

I looked for studies supporting your statement. The evidence is conflicting, and there appears to be no conclusive evidence one way or the other, although some people certainly are fond of repeating this as if it's fact.

Still appears questionable - A few studies and more information included in this article.

https://www.mdmag.com/medical-news/is-there-a-link-between-l...

Re: Ibuprofen alters human testicular physiology to produce compensated hypogonadism

#185

Post by mmirate3 » Sun, Dec 30, 2018, 1:44 PM UTC

SubiculumCode wrote: post #51

acct1771 wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And acetaminophen reduces empathy, according to some convincing research. What's wrong with cannabis-derived solutions, again?

For those downvoting parent please see https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5015806/ And others. True or not, parent wasn't just making up the empathy-painkiller association.

Wow! A psychoactive substance that's actually helpful!

(Even though it's clearly not net-helpful due to the serious physiological side-effects.)

That's amazing!

... why isn't there more research on isolating this particular side-effect?

Re: Ibuprofen alters human testicular physiology to produce compensated hypogonadism

#186

Post by Valmar » Sun, Dec 30, 2018, 1:46 PM UTC

ricardobeat wrote: post #156

jey wrote: post #2

"Ibuprofen and hypogonadism — bench to bedside to misinterpreted hype?" at https://www.nature.com/articles/nrurol.2018.26 : > A recent study suggests modulation of luteinizing hormone signalling within the hypothalamic–pituitary–gonadal axis and downstream transcriptional effects caused by sustained ibuprofen use. However, this study cannot be used to draw any clinical conclusions regarding effects of ibuprofen on ma…

In curious how can they make a statement such as “the study cannot be used to draw any conclusions” without providing any kind of reasoning, and get published in Nature?

Whenever I see blanket statements like this in such studies ~ it's like they're trying to avoid pissing any powerful corporations that profit from whatever we're told to not draw any conclusions about. They don't want to potentially endanger their careers.

Drug companies hate it when a cash-cow drug is threatened in any way. Anything that threatens those profits is a potential target in one way or another. Researchers studying these drugs know just how much power and influence these drug companies have, and so, are afraid of angering them.

The reasoning is simple ~ make a vaguely disqualifying statement that hopefully keeps them in the good books.

Re: Ibuprofen alters human testicular physiology to produce compensated hypogonadism

#187

Post by [deleted] » Sun, Dec 30, 2018, 1:47 PM UTC

wallace_f wrote: post #100

whatshisface wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What is happening that gets everyone so inflamed? If you take a painkiller and go right back to the activity that damaged you you are begging for permanent injury.

It's not very strange. 600mg/day "as needed" is the standard otc dose.

[deleted]

Re: Ibuprofen alters human testicular physiology to produce compensated hypogonadism

#188

Post by kristiandupont » Sun, Dec 30, 2018, 1:47 PM UTC

stolsvik wrote: post #125

logicchains wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>I wonder what I should give my kids when they have fevers though You don't have to give them anything. Ibuprofen doesn't make the underlying infection causing the fever go away any quicker, it just alleviates the symptoms. It's a trade off between reducing short-term suffering and risking long-term defects. Personally my parents never gave me painkillers for fever and I'm grateful for it: fever pain is just a tempor…

These kind of sentiments really scare and provokes me. Telling anyone that they shouldn't alleviate kids fever and/or pain is absolutely revolting to me.

Fever is likely a mechanism that the body exercises to fight infections, just the way diarrhea is probably a way for the body to flush out vira and bacteria quickly. In both cases, excess can be dangerous but that doesn't mean they should be stopped per default.

Would you also give your kid anti-diarrhea and let the disease spread in order to stop the immediate unpleasantness?

Re: Ibuprofen alters human testicular physiology to produce compensated hypogonadism

#189

Post by Valmar » Sun, Dec 30, 2018, 1:49 PM UTC

an_account_name wrote: post #39

scjr wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am not aware of any common uses of Ibuprofen and Acetominophen that saves lives?

Fevers kill. Ibuprofen and acetaminophen reduce fevers.

Fevers are used by the body in an attempt to weaken invading bacteria and viruses, and make it easier for the body to heal.

You don't want to stop a fever ~ just keep it within the safe zone where it's healing, but not dangerous.

Re: Ibuprofen alters human testicular physiology to produce compensated hypogonadism

#190

Post by mmirate3 » Sun, Dec 30, 2018, 1:51 PM UTC

acct1771 wrote: post #87

complector wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

If you'd rather your kid step on others to succeed than fail, don't have a kid.

Who are you to tell others whether they can reproduce? That's eugenics!

EDIT: ... isn't it? And isn't eugenics bad?