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China overtakes U.S. for healthy lifespan: WHO data

reuters.com

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Re: China overtakes U.S. for healthy lifespan: WHO data

#181

Post by muddyrivers »

poster123 wrote: post #176

"Asian-Americans outlive whites by an average of nearly 8 years" according to https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4567918/ . Differences in life expectancy across countries are probably due to both genetic and social factors.

Diet might be another important factor. Asian tend to have balanced meals that include significant amounts of vegetables, fish, seafood, etc.

I think the condition is improving. More and more people realize the importance of balanced meals. It shows in grocery stores. They stock more variety of vegetables and fish than before.

Re: China overtakes U.S. for healthy lifespan: WHO data

#182

Post by i_am_nomad »

wazoox wrote: post #153

The United States was one of only five countries, along with Somalia, Afghanistan, Georgia and Saint Vincent and the Grenadines, where healthy life expectancy at birth fell in 2016... Meanwhile U.S. life expectancy is falling, having peaked at 79 years in 2014, the first such reversal for many years... This is also inequality and poverty taking their toll. May it be sign? In 1976, Emmanuel Todd announced the coming f…

Poverty is one of the US’s major imports.

Re: China overtakes U.S. for healthy lifespan: WHO data

#183

Post by dzdt »

Andre_Wanglin wrote: post #159
jacobush wrote: post #157

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Complicated, how? Obesity forming is part of declining living conditions.

Obesity is a sign of improved living conditions that is also a sign of declining living conditions. The former conditions are largely out of the individual's control while the latter conditions are largely in his control. That is, being able to be obese is dictated by the economic vitality of one's country whereas being obese is dictated by one's actions.

But one's actions are also largely dictated by societal living conditions. Many people are extremely time-constrained due to working + commuting + child caring hours. Finding time to exercise or to prepare healthy food is a challenge. Add to this that healthy food is often less easily available and more expensive than unhealthy choices. There is a degree of individual control, but it is society that controls what is easy or hard for the individual to choose.

Re: China overtakes U.S. for healthy lifespan: WHO data

#184

Post by Steltek »

Andre_Wanglin wrote: post #159
jacobush wrote: post #157

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Complicated, how? Obesity forming is part of declining living conditions.

Obesity is a sign of improved living conditions that is also a sign of declining living conditions. The former conditions are largely out of the individual's control while the latter conditions are largely in his control. That is, being able to be obese is dictated by the economic vitality of one's country whereas being obese is dictated by one's actions.

There are a lot of roadblocks put in the way to controlling your weight. In the US that on the intake, junk food is readily available while healthy food is a luxury. Conversely, the US working environment suffers from increasingly medieval labor laws[+], limiting one's ability to exercise or live a well balanced lifestyle.

I wouldn't be so eager to say "being obese is dictated by one's actions". It's an equal mix of self-control and an unhealthy environment.

[+]: "Independent contractors", arbitration, union stigma/busting

Re: China overtakes U.S. for healthy lifespan: WHO data

#185

Post by seanmcdirmid »

cocoggu wrote: post #177
seanmcdirmid wrote: post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I lived in Beijing for 10 years (until 2016). Even the most committed wumao wouldn’t it’s pretty bad. Western media (if you mean by propaganda) if anything makes the problem sound not as bad as it really is, but how could any westerner even begin to comprehend an AQI reading over 300 let alone 500 or 1000. Actually, the only people who say the air isn’t bad are the ones who have never been before.

So bad you left in 2016, I'm in Beijing since 2012 and I can tell 2017 has been the year of change for air pollution. I really expect the next months/years to improve as well because the AQI still occasionally reach 300-350 and it's already far too high. I guess we will have to wait another 5-7 years to reach US and Europe current air quality though.

I know it’s gotten better this year but keep in mind they were promising this for a long time, it wasn’t there first try at the problem. Regardless, I don’t want my kid getting asthma, so we really had no choice but to leave, even given the current improvement it would have still been a problem. The air might be clean for the next generation or the one after that, but it’s not going to be for us.

I’m tired of reading headlines like “Beijing to have clean air by 2015” wait no “2020” ok maybe “2025.” Glad that they’ve made progress but the government has lost all credebility otherwise.

Re: China overtakes U.S. for healthy lifespan: WHO data

#186

Post by chrisseaton »

ItsMe000001 wrote: post #148
chrisseaton wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How is it backward looking? Do you think the data is wrong? Or interpreted wrong? You’ve presented some news articles about issues in China but I don’t know how these affects overall life expectancy in combination with all the other factors. Do you? They seem to think they’ve taken account of likely future trends and ongoing health issues because they’ve said: > Chinese newborns can look forward to 68.7 years of heal…

> How is it backward looking? I don't have an opinion about China, but just in general, I'm sure they don't have data from the future :-) I would say it is okay to say that about such predictions. There are others that don't rely as much on past data, but especially this kind of prediction surely is entirely based on numbers from the past, or do we have a model that reliably predicts those outcomes from at least pres…

> I don't have an opinion about China, but just in general, I'm sure they don't have data from the future :-)

Well then all studies are ‘backward looking’ then and it’s a stupid criticism, and why mention it since it’s obvious and there’s no other way they could have done it.

Re: China overtakes U.S. for healthy lifespan: WHO data

#187

Post by muddyrivers »

gggibi08 wrote: post #24

This study is backward looking; it hasn't taken account of China's current set of factors that could skew the lifespan down tremendously for average Chinese citizens. Factors such as 1.) Air pollution. In your typical big cities, e.g Beijing, it average AQI 100-150 for the past 10+ years https://young-0.com/airquality/ . In other lower tiered cities, it average between 50-100. Just to compare, WHO recommend only AQI…

Pollution is indeed a big problem. I think it is closely related to both economy and national psychology. The economy has to develop to a point that the government decides that it is preferable to slow down economy and allocate more resources to deal with pollution. One example is the recent ban of importing garbages. It will take years to clean the pollution.

Smoking/smokers problem has been improving. (Anecdotal evidence) Most men in my hometown were smokers when I grew up. So were my friends/classmates when they turned 20s. It was a norm in social meetings. The last few years when I visited them, most quit smoking. Based on my nephews, there are much less smokers in the young generation.

Re: China overtakes U.S. for healthy lifespan: WHO data

#188

Post by bpicolo »

OscarCunningham wrote: post #172
nostrademons wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's not necessarily a disproof - if opioids are killing people who are disproportionately young, then they could have an outsize effect on life expectancy. Say life expectancy is 79 years. If a new cause of death occurs that affects 10% of the population and kills, on average, at age 78, then life expectancy goes down to 78.9. If a new cause of death occurs that affects 10% of the population and kills at age 29, t…

For a cause of death affecting 40000/2700000 it could only reduce life expectancy from 79 to 77.8, even if all the victims were age 0. EDIT: I suppose it could be lowered a bit more if all those who died were those who would otherwise have lived longest.

> I suppose it could be lowered a bit more if all those who died were those who would otherwise have lived longest.

That would average out in a population size of 40k

Re: China overtakes U.S. for healthy lifespan: WHO data

#189

Post by intopieces »

seanmcdirmid wrote: post #112
intopieces wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All valid points. The good news is that China has big ideas for dealing with these, and will actually implement them. I have no love for the CCP. I think they are an oppressive regime that unduly subjects their people to censorship and control. But I do respect that they invest in infrastructure and solving big problems for their people. The US seems to have given up. It seems to think that the problems we face are u…

The CPC has always had big plans for solving air pollution and smoking problems, ever since I started living there in 2007. Each campaign subsequently failed, so they don’t have a great track record on actually “getting things done.” Maybe it’s different this time, but a healthy dose of skepticism is definitely warranted. Once my wife was pregnant, we had to leave Beijing, there was no way the air pollution problem w…

The Economist says the opposite: https://www.economist.com/the-economist-explains/2018/01/25/...
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