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Leap: An Online Community for Women

blog.ycombinator.com

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Re: Leap: An Online Community for Women

#181

Post by tptacek »

probably_wrong wrote: post #23
cbcowans wrote: post #2

Hi! I'm the creator of Leap. Glad to answer questions here.

I'll go straight to the difficult questions: 1. I thought gender-based discrimination was illegal. How is Leap not illegal? 2. One of the main objections of "gentleman's clubs" was that their (male) members had access to important networking contacts, putting women in unequal foot in an unfair way when it came to businesses. Wouldn't Leap be unfair in the same way?

Gender discrimination is obviously not illegal. How do you think rec sports leagues or support groups work?

Re: Leap: An Online Community for Women

#182

Post by dang »

msla wrote: post #95
rev_bird wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>A group does not "want" anything. I disagree. A group of women is saying they feel marginalized and want to develop a community of support. Men, particularly ones in this awful comment section are saying "NO FAIR!!!" Those seem like groups, and they clearly want things.

Personal attacks will get you banned here, regardless of how wrong someone else is or you feel they are. We've had to warn you about this before. That's bad. I'm not going to ban you now because your recent comment history looks pretty good by HN standards, but please don't break the rules like this again. We want thoughtful, substantive discussion, not flamebait or flamewars.

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

Re: Leap: An Online Community for Women

#183

Post by _zachs »

fvdessen wrote: post #46
rev_bird wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Wouldn't Leap be unfair in the same way? This assumption completely disregards the measurable advantage men have in the tech community. If you have identical programs, one for a historically disenfranchised group, and one for the group that's been in power for decades, only one of those programs is shitty. edit: "Advantage" was a poor choice of words, but since it's been quoted in replies I'll leave it. I meant some…

> The measurable advantage men have in the tech community What is that advantage and how is it measured ?

Note the lack of specifics. It's much easier to hold a viewpoint that can't be refuted if it's not measurable in the first place.

Re: Leap: An Online Community for Women

#184

Post by fruzz »

cheez wrote: post #172
fruzz wrote: post #169

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Those experiences are awful. I do not dispute that there are male victims, including in the workplace. I absolutely agree that "People shouldn't do this to other People". That said, women as a group are disproportionately on the receiving end of improper workplace behaviour overwhelmingly perpetrated by men. And you can't address that dynamic without first acknowledging that it exists and putting words to it. And so,…

So the solution is what? To impose solutions on the individual who never would have done anything untoward anyway?

Creating an online space that empower women, like Leap, is one example of a solution.

Re: Leap: An Online Community for Women

#185

Post by autotune »

cbcowans wrote: post #66
RangerScience wrote: post #41

As a man, I cannot access your site, but I am still curious which community model you're using - reddit, old school forum, feed (FB, insta)...? Do you have anything you're doing that you find particularly interesting, beyond the self-selection?

I put together a gif with some example content from Leap when I posted Leap on Product Hunt. You can check it out here if you like: https://www.producthunt.com/posts/leap-by-yc . I'd describe it as a hybrid. I'd love to hear which bucket you'd put it in.

Not OP but to me it looks like a Reddit clone with a few more "fun features" with the emojis. It could very well be based off of reddit considering it's open source.

Re: Leap: An Online Community for Women

#186

Post by totalZero »

dang wrote: post #120
sievebrain wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Again! Your goal is not to create an inclusive community. Your goal is to create an exclusive community. Look, if want to create a female only website then go for it. But you have to own your actions. You can't exclude half the population then claim you care about inclusion. That is rank hypocrisy bordering on the delusional - you are doing the exact opposite of what you claim.

I warned you once in this thread already ( https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16161338 ), but you've managed to break yet another HN site guideline with this comment, the one that reads as follows: Please respond to the strongest plausible interpretation of what someone says, not a weaker one that's easier to criticize. Obviously Cadran was talking about making Leap inclusive within the scope of being a forum for w…

It appears to me that sievebrain's criticism lines up with any plausible interpretation of cbcowans' comment. One cannot claim the benefits of inclusion while also excluding half the population, and arguably more than half of tech professionals.

That's not to say that there's necessarily anything wrong with exclusion -- it is a fact of life in many ways, and can be fruitful. I am a member of some exclusive clubs and I find them to be highly rewarding.

Perhaps "hypocrisy" and "delusion" are inflammatory words, and should not have been chosen. I think a better way to characterize cbcowans' comment is "doublespeak," as the inherent nature of Leap is quite the opposite of her description.

Still, in regard to that particular HN site guideline, sievebrain's point applies to even the strongest possible interpretation of cbcowans' comment. There is necessarily a logical inconsistency between establishing an exclusive organization and then describing it as "an inclusive community."

Re: Leap: An Online Community for Women

#187

Post by DoreenMichele »

iamdave wrote: post #178
DoreenMichele wrote: post #158

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If it is a setting where asking is potentially problematic -- like work -- it is best to either broach the subject more delicately or don't ask unless you are confident you know the answer is yes. Just asking cold calling style is not the only option for approaching such things.

If it is a setting where asking is potentially problematic -- like work This is cultural, no? I mean, I have a personal rule of never dating coworkers, but I have friends elsewhere in the world where this isn't such a strange notion.

I worked at a company where co-workers dated and even married. It wasn't against the rules as long as one did not have power over the other at work.

Nonetheless, I was asked for a date by a senior programmer in the department I had been hoping to transfer to. This helped kill my hopes of having a real career at the company and helped me make my peace with just leaving the company shortly thereafter.

Some people know how to navigate such situations effectively. Some don't. Culture may help skew those percentages one direction or the other, but I think certain settings introduce inherent problems that need to be accounted for and navigated around. Working together is one such situation.

Re: Leap: An Online Community for Women

#189

Post by WaxProlix »

rev_bird wrote: post #116
TheAdamAndChe wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The word was properly being used. The definition of triggered is "anything, as an act or event, that serves as a stimulus and initiates or precipitates a reaction or series of reactions."[1] Definitions also change over time, and the colloquial definition of the word seems to be shifting to "Getting filled with hate after seeing, hearing or experiencing something you can't stand."[2] [1] http://www.dictionary.com/bro…

This seems like a disingenuous decontextualization of what was said. Your link to dictionary.com says this: >to initiate or precipitate (a chain of events, scientific reaction, psychological process, etc.) "Psychological process," in this case, is what I was talking about, and what I think the original commenter was referring to. "Trigger warnings" aren't warning you that you might feel "anything that will cause a re…

Hey, it's exhausting work dealing with these kinds of people and I see you doing it in this thread; thanks for it, and keep it up.

Re: Leap: An Online Community for Women

#190

Post by throwaway06509 »

turinapple wrote: post #54

I'm a woman that's worked in tech since 2011... at times the discrimination and treatment I've faced has made me want to quit the industry all together. But every time I reached that point I thought - no, I'm not the one who should have to leave, it's the people -- usually men -- who have not shown empathy, kindness or compassion. The ones who have bullied me and harassed me and made inappropriate comments or advance…

I'm not sure how this comment will go down (hence throwaway). But as a man I'm now a little envious of Leap. I've never suffered the sexual harassment or gender based discrimination but I have suffered the bullying, and witnessed it against others, and I've been punished and had my reputation/career badly damaged by those I tried to stand up to. I would love a positive place where people can be open about what they're experiencing like this without fear of retaliation.
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