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Leap: An Online Community for Women

blog.ycombinator.com

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Re: Leap: An Online Community for Women

#151

Post by ashelmire »

turinapple wrote: post #54

I'm a woman that's worked in tech since 2011... at times the discrimination and treatment I've faced has made me want to quit the industry all together. But every time I reached that point I thought - no, I'm not the one who should have to leave, it's the people -- usually men -- who have not shown empathy, kindness or compassion. The ones who have bullied me and harassed me and made inappropriate comments or advance…

Do you work for them? There are many women-only forums and groups, including groups specifically for women in tech, on Facebook, Meetup, etc. By all means, create as many as you'd like, but this post of yours reads like an ad.

Edit: Sorry, didn't mean this as an accusation of shilling. I was just somewhat taken aback by the idea that there aren't any other safe spaces on the internet.

Re: Leap: An Online Community for Women

#152

Post by beat »

fvdessen wrote: post #46
rev_bird wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Wouldn't Leap be unfair in the same way? This assumption completely disregards the measurable advantage men have in the tech community. If you have identical programs, one for a historically disenfranchised group, and one for the group that's been in power for decades, only one of those programs is shitty. edit: "Advantage" was a poor choice of words, but since it's been quoted in replies I'll leave it. I meant some…

> The measurable advantage men have in the tech community What is that advantage and how is it measured ?

Measurement is easy. Just look around you. The majority of people working in tech are men. An even larger majority of its leadership is men.

Why is this?

There are only two possible causes that I can see - genetic, or cultural. The genetic argument is basically that men are, by nature, better at being programmers and leaders than women - that women are inferior. The cultural argument is that there is a social advantage to being male (and a social disadvantage to being female) - that, all else being equal, things tend to default in favor of men.

Personally, I reject the genetic explanation. Most people do. If you also reject it, then you're stuck with the cultural explanation, or finding something I haven't come up with.

Re: Leap: An Online Community for Women

#153

Post by chrislynch42 »

lhorie wrote: post #130
rubicon33 wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am interested in the answers to these tough questions as well. I can sympathize with the position women are in and can understand the strong desire to form an organization like Leap. To that end, I applaud and support them. However, I do wonder about comments like this: > "a community where the core culture was set by women, and the software and product decisions were also made by women" Progressives are currently…

If you follow that line of reasoning to its extreme logical conclusion, you might arrive at a completely nonsensical argument that former rapists should be allowed to join rape victim support groups. If someone wants to make an argument about equality, one needs to also consider the concept of a safe haven. If a specific type of people are a threat to the safety and well being of a community, the community should hav…

Being a rapist is illegal, while identifying as a man is not.

I would think a better analogy is that a rape support group would not allow male victims as most rapists are men.

Re: Leap: An Online Community for Women

#154

Post by ambivalents »

booleandilemma wrote: post #117
fruzz wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I really wish your experience was unique. A colleague was groped. She didn't report it. It would have likely diminished her future prospects. A friend was asked out on dates, unsolicited, multiple times by coworkers. She just had to laugh it off. Women at a previous employment reported not being taken as seriously as men in meetings, and being passed over for promotions in favour of less qualified men. A friend repor…

A friend was asked out on dates, unsolicited, multiple times by coworkers. I’m a geek and don’t know the first thing about dating, but doesn’t at least one of the parties involved need to receive an unsolicited request? Isn’t that how it works?

> A friend was asked out on dates, unsolicited, multiple times by coworkers.

It's a little ambiguous in how this is worded whether the same person asked multiple times, or if it was multiple people each asking once. BUT in the former case especially, if you get turned down for a date please respect the other's wishes and do not keep trying, especially at work. It's not cute or charming, it's just disrespectful.

Re: Leap: An Online Community for Women

#156

Post by beat »

glorkk wrote: post #51
rev_bird wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Wouldn't Leap be unfair in the same way? This assumption completely disregards the measurable advantage men have in the tech community. If you have identical programs, one for a historically disenfranchised group, and one for the group that's been in power for decades, only one of those programs is shitty. edit: "Advantage" was a poor choice of words, but since it's been quoted in replies I'll leave it. I meant some…

> the measurable advantage men have in the tech community I’m sure if it is “measurable” you can provide some numbers?

I'm sure you can google them. Or, if you're in a tech office right now, just open your eyes and look around you for anecdotal evidence.

Re: Leap: An Online Community for Women

#157

Post by chaostheory »

cbcowans wrote: post #2

Hi! I'm the creator of Leap. Glad to answer questions here.

Overall I feel that this is a good idea. When it comes to harassment, people tend to keep it quiet for various reasons, among them fear and embarrassment. While things have changed for the better recently, any venue that helps people speak up about their experience is a good thing.

Of course like everything else, there are trade offs, especially when this community is female only... While as a male I was aware of the existence of gender discrimination and harassment, I did not realize how ignorant I was of the subject and how terrible the situation was, until I read Susan Fowler's account at Uber. It was a paradigm change for me. How will Leap mitigate from potentially becoming a closed echo chamber? i.e. will this limit needed but hard discussions between the sexes? How does Leap prevent that?

Re: Leap: An Online Community for Women

#158

Post by DoreenMichele »

booleandilemma wrote: post #117
fruzz wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I really wish your experience was unique. A colleague was groped. She didn't report it. It would have likely diminished her future prospects. A friend was asked out on dates, unsolicited, multiple times by coworkers. She just had to laugh it off. Women at a previous employment reported not being taken as seriously as men in meetings, and being passed over for promotions in favour of less qualified men. A friend repor…

A friend was asked out on dates, unsolicited, multiple times by coworkers. I’m a geek and don’t know the first thing about dating, but doesn’t at least one of the parties involved need to receive an unsolicited request? Isn’t that how it works?

If it is a setting where asking is potentially problematic -- like work -- it is best to either broach the subject more delicately or don't ask unless you are confident you know the answer is yes.

Just asking cold calling style is not the only option for approaching such things.

Re: Leap: An Online Community for Women

#159

Post by Anticapitalist »

ashelmire wrote: post #151
turinapple wrote: post #54

I'm a woman that's worked in tech since 2011... at times the discrimination and treatment I've faced has made me want to quit the industry all together. But every time I reached that point I thought - no, I'm not the one who should have to leave, it's the people -- usually men -- who have not shown empathy, kindness or compassion. The ones who have bullied me and harassed me and made inappropriate comments or advance…

Do you work for them? There are many women-only forums and groups, including groups specifically for women in tech, on Facebook, Meetup, etc. By all means, create as many as you'd like, but this post of yours reads like an ad. Edit: Sorry, didn't mean this as an accusation of shilling. I was just somewhat taken aback by the idea that there aren't any other safe spaces on the internet.

It doesn't read like an ad.

It reads like the often repeated (and ignored) experience of women in tech.

Re: Leap: An Online Community for Women

#160

Post by rev_bird »

dang wrote: post #146
rev_bird wrote: post #144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>I would like to offer another point of view Honestly, I don't give a shit about "another point of view," and that you think it matters here is a great illustration of why women would run for the hills, whichever hills don't have you on them. This is not about someone's experience as a "social reject," this isn't about sad boys not being cool in high school because they like comic books. This is about women wanting a…

Your comments have been crossing into incivility in this thread—not principled incivility, just garden-variety internet swipes like "I don't give a shit", "this is nonsense", and "you're pretending". All this breaks the HN guidelines, regardless of how wrong someone else is or how right you are or feel. Please read https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html and get on the right side of the rules if you want to…

Oh! A moderator! How nice of you to arrive. No need to worry, I won't be coming back.
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