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Two days in an underwater cave running out of oxygen

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Re: Two days in an underwater cave running out of oxygen

#181

Post by gpawl »

justinjlynn wrote: post #139
gnaritas wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As long as abortion is legal, parents certainly do always have a choice; pregnancy is not equal to having a child.

Indeed. Well, I really hate to get technical here - and don't want to debate identity politics - but the male half of the equation really doesn't have that option. In the vast majority of cases, that choice is solely the mother's prerogative. Edit: Let me be very clear here: I am not advocating for any position or change of position on this matter in any way. I am simply stating an observation of how the world curren…

pre-conception birth control is still a male's choice.

Re: Two days in an underwater cave running out of oxygen

#182

Post by gpawl »

Chris2048 wrote: post #98
sametmax wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can decide that having children doesn't mean you have to sacrifice everything for them. If you greatest joy in life is this, you may choose to take the risk. Children are not an all or nothing proposal.

> If you greatest joy life is this How about not having children, then? Or at least until/unless you have stopped diving? > doesn't mean you have to sacrifice everything for them There are a lot of small things you don't need to, but the big things you should. Your life, their father, is a big thing. If it means more to you to dive, do that instead .

Look, I love diving, and I love my kids. But I can't rent kids for just a few years [ok, excepting foster parenting]. Having a child introduces complexity, and "drop everything for 15 years" is only one possible answer.

Re: Two days in an underwater cave running out of oxygen

#183

Post by gpawl »

coleifer wrote: post #40
j9461701 wrote: post #33

I might be speaking out of line, but taking on these kinds of risks with young children at home seems kind of selfish. The fact that he went back into the same cave that nearly killed him only a month later...almost as if to say: "I would rather my kids grow up without a Dad than live without my adrenaline fix" I am neither a father or a cave diver though, so I might be missing a piece of the puzzle. Would either gro…

I race motorcycles and also ride on the street most days, so this is a familiar topic of discussion with my wife, especially considering that we have a two-year-old son. What I can say on the subject is that there's a big difference between taking every precaution to minimize risk and being careless or reckless. What stood out to me when reading this article was "why the fuck would you use a guideline that could brea…

The day you flip out on your bike and land on your head, god forbid, the same questions will be asked of you.

Re: Two days in an underwater cave running out of oxygen

#184

Post by gpawl »

neurotech1 wrote: post #149
myrandomcomment wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Agreed. Wife and I were both skydivers. We have not jumped since my daughter was born. To be honest, it is not because it is unsafe (there is a risk just driving to the drop zone) but because of the life insurance that we now carry. That being said, even if I still jumped I would not do some of the other items around it like is used to (BASE jumping for example).

One of the ironies is that test pilots have trouble getting life insurance, yet its extremely rare that a test pilot for a major aerospace company has a serious accident. I can think of two crashes involving test pilots in recent years that resulted in fatalities (or serious injuries) [0] https://aviation-safety.net/database/record.php?id=20110402-... [1] https://aviation-safety.net/wikibase/wiki.php?id=188544

Surely employers must cover life insurance then?

Re: Two days in an underwater cave running out of oxygen

#185

Post by gpawl »

myrandomcomment wrote: post #76
j9461701 wrote: post #33

I might be speaking out of line, but taking on these kinds of risks with young children at home seems kind of selfish. The fact that he went back into the same cave that nearly killed him only a month later...almost as if to say: "I would rather my kids grow up without a Dad than live without my adrenaline fix" I am neither a father or a cave diver though, so I might be missing a piece of the puzzle. Would either gro…

Agreed. Wife and I were both skydivers. We have not jumped since my daughter was born. To be honest, it is not because it is unsafe (there is a risk just driving to the drop zone) but because of the life insurance that we now carry. That being said, even if I still jumped I would not do some of the other items around it like is used to (BASE jumping for example).

Your life insurance policy is what it is because diving is unsafe

Re: Two days in an underwater cave running out of oxygen

#186

Post by justinjlynn »

gpawl wrote: post #181
justinjlynn wrote: post #139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Indeed. Well, I really hate to get technical here - and don't want to debate identity politics - but the male half of the equation really doesn't have that option. In the vast majority of cases, that choice is solely the mother's prerogative. Edit: Let me be very clear here: I am not advocating for any position or change of position on this matter in any way. I am simply stating an observation of how the world curren…

pre-conception birth control is still a male's choice.

Yes, that's true but then that's really not the topic here, is it.

Re: Two days in an underwater cave running out of oxygen

#187

Post by gpawl »

agumonkey wrote: post #39
j9461701 wrote: post #33

I might be speaking out of line, but taking on these kinds of risks with young children at home seems kind of selfish. The fact that he went back into the same cave that nearly killed him only a month later...almost as if to say: "I would rather my kids grow up without a Dad than live without my adrenaline fix" I am neither a father or a cave diver though, so I might be missing a piece of the puzzle. Would either gro…

Some people just do what they need to, I'm saying this from Jeb Corlis, famous wingsuit diver, who said he just cannot avoid jumping even though it's more than risky, deadly AND that he crashed once (one of the luckiest comeback I ever got to see). His family isn't happy, but he cannot live otherwise so it's either depression or adrenaline.

and if you can't judge him for being addicted to taking risks, you can't judge people for being addicted to having feelings about it.

Re: Two days in an underwater cave running out of oxygen

#188

Post by kqr2 »

enimodas wrote: post #84
benzofuran wrote: post #18

When you're learning to cave dive, one of the first things that you learn is that you may very well die in there. Most of the training focuses on systems, skills repetition, and understanding and using redundant systems - folks getting into cave diving typically are already extremely experienced divers who if anything need only some minor skill tweaks - most cave instructors will not take on students who don't alread…

I would recommend this well written article: https://www.outsideonline.com/1922711/raising-dead It's the story about the diver David Shaw and his attempt to recover the body of diver Deon Dreyer in one of the deepest sweetwater caves on earth. A bit of a read but well worth it.

This American Life had an episode on this called No Man Left Behind :

https://www.thisamericanlife.org/radio-archives/episode/515/...

Re: Two days in an underwater cave running out of oxygen

#189

Post by benzofuran »

surgeryres wrote: post #165

No one has mentioned the risk subjected upon the rescue team to come get him. So there's that.

Rescue teams for caves are usually regional volunteer groups - and usually it's body recovery. They go into it knowing what they're likely to find - very rarely (if ever) are they first responders or typical public service employees, at least as part of their job function

Re: Two days in an underwater cave running out of oxygen

#190

Post by [deleted] »

sathackr wrote: post #170
j9461701 wrote: post #33

I might be speaking out of line, but taking on these kinds of risks with young children at home seems kind of selfish. The fact that he went back into the same cave that nearly killed him only a month later...almost as if to say: "I would rather my kids grow up without a Dad than live without my adrenaline fix" I am neither a father or a cave diver though, so I might be missing a piece of the puzzle. Would either gro…

I lost my father at 15 to his work. He had a relatively dangerous job, made a mistake, and it killed him. This was 4 years after I lost my mother doing something she was passionate about. I can tell you in no uncertain terms that losing both parents before you turn 16 is no walk in the park. But I managed, I survived, and now work in a field that often touches both of the things that killed my parents and I have a bi…

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