Earlier quoted context omitted.
Answers. Or possibly just better questions.
What would you do with those answers?
What suggestions might you have?
Or perhaps, what possiblities occur to you?
Social Cooling – How big data is increasing pressure to conform
181–190 of 204 posts
Re: Social Cooling – How big data is increasing pressure to conform
#182I see this chilling effect manifested sometimes on HN as well. People will create throwaway accounts to comment on certain subjects. An example - there was a discussion a couple of days ago about FB and I questioned why a commenter felt the need to create a fake account simply to comment on FB. It turned out they weren't even a current employee but an ex-employee.
on HN, the mods are directly responsible for the chilling effect. they censor anyone who doesn't tow the company line, or has any kind of strong dissenting opinion. this is achieved by shadow bans, single-IP bans, and then finally by flagging every single IP they've ever logged in under as blacklisted for new account creation. i cycled through 3 or 4 accounts with multiple-thousand-points of karma, but in the end i j…
>"on HN, the mods are directly responsible for the chilling effect. they censor anyone who doesn't tow the company line, or has any kind of strong dissenting opinion ..."
What is the company line exactly? Is it just maintaing agreement with YC-backed companies?
I hadn't heard about the shadow bans, are they only on submissions or commenting too?
Re: Social Cooling – How big data is increasing pressure to conform
#183I was going to write at length about my concerns on this topic, and then I decided not to. Because it's entirely possible that one day many years from now, a prospective employer/insurer/whatever finds such a comment and flags me for it. That's the cooling effect in a nutshell.
I've been saying this for a while: We as a society have to stop taking everything that is said on the internet so fucking seriously. You shouldn't have to think everything perfectly though that you write. It's OK to say something dumb, or even offensive. It's not great, but no big deal either. I don't want to live in a world where we have to polish and double-check every thought that leaves our minds. It used to be t…
Scripta manent, as the romans said. Written (digitized) content is so much more important because its objective evidence, not hearsay, so we have to take it more seriously than rumors. This hasn't changed across millenia, i dont see it changing now.
Re: Social Cooling – How big data is increasing pressure to conform
#184I would add that, in an age where old values fade away, people seem to be caught in a strange economy of visible virtue.
By reducing moral relativism to the self and ignoring its role in relationships at large, individuality overcomes any collective moral system (be it religious, political or philosophical), and so self-righteousness assumes a form that values spontaneity and originality - the tools of personal promotion - above ethical soundness. This seems to be, in my opinion, the hummus of the most visible social outcry. Social media outrage took the place of discussion, just like opinion articles are taking the place of news reports.
Uncritical adherence to this logic harms us all. And the chilling effect strengthens it.
In the past, people fought against a static, conservative religious or political moral, in order to make room for individuality, liberty and democracy. Now we have an agglomerate of individual perspectives fighting for visibility in social media, where popularity (by any shallow measure) took the place of reasoning. The chilling effect makes public virtue even more black and white, and conformity (or social cooling) is just settling in either side. Living in the fringe that is refusal of conformity (social heating?) has become more difficult and exhausting than ever...
I don't know. Maybe I'm wrong and things were like this for ages. Maybe there is an answer in all the valuable teachings of the past that we simply choose to ignore for the sake of the here and now.
Re: Social Cooling – How big data is increasing pressure to conform
#185I see this chilling effect manifested sometimes on HN as well. People will create throwaway accounts to comment on certain subjects. An example - there was a discussion a couple of days ago about FB and I questioned why a commenter felt the need to create a fake account simply to comment on FB. It turned out they weren't even a current employee but an ex-employee.
on HN, the mods are directly responsible for the chilling effect. they censor anyone who doesn't tow the company line, or has any kind of strong dissenting opinion. this is achieved by shadow bans, single-IP bans, and then finally by flagging every single IP they've ever logged in under as blacklisted for new account creation. i cycled through 3 or 4 accounts with multiple-thousand-points of karma, but in the end i j…
[deleted]
Re: Social Cooling – How big data is increasing pressure to conform
#186Earlier quoted context omitted.
True, but since everything is saved you only need to fuck up once and now everything can be pointed at you. The asymmetry in effort between staying anonymous and someone de-anonymizing you is getting bigger every day
I was recently doxxed on Reddit. Never posted my name, used a unique username, but after 6+ years of posting, someone triangulated the data and successfully found my full name and home address. Even though the user was banned (several times), even though all the posts are now deleted, along with my entire comment and submission history, my username there is now permanently tied to my real name. While it was easy for…
Hell if you are using some program that implements type ahead, they could just identify you with your typing patterns
Re: Social Cooling – How big data is increasing pressure to conform
#187Earlier quoted context omitted.
I've been saying this for a while: We as a society have to stop taking everything that is said on the internet so fucking seriously. You shouldn't have to think everything perfectly though that you write. It's OK to say something dumb, or even offensive. It's not great, but no big deal either. I don't want to live in a world where we have to polish and double-check every thought that leaves our minds. It used to be t…
> You shouldn't have to think everything perfectly though that you write. It's OK to say something dumb, or even offensive. It's not great, but no big deal either. I don't want to live in a world where we have to polish and double-check every thought that leaves our minds. That's nice. And we shouldn't have to maintain physical appearances or be judged for it. We should just accept all of our imperfections, celebrati…
Typing this comment on hn website is annoying as fuck.
The input box gets hidden behind the keyboard so I have to type blindly.
Probably going to get down voted for this and next time I'll have to censor myself to become a robot so I don't lose my points from which my future employer will judge my worthiness.
But seriously please make hn a github project so I can send a PR to fix this really annoying issue everytime I type a fucking comment.
Re: Social Cooling – How big data is increasing pressure to conform
#188We are in the age of "virtue signalling" people pretend to hold what they believe are popular virtues. Is it possible to mention "Donald Trump" and not cause an uproar of virtue signalling?
"Virtue Signaling" is the most asinine, mean-spirited concept invented since about the middle ages. Its only ever used as a blanket dismissal of others' opinions, even going so far as to blatantly use the moral strength of an argument as a weapon against that argument.
Sure, my wife would mostly agree with you, I don't totally disagree either but try and see the context in why it has become widely used
I am going to give you with a quote from Antifragile by Nassim Nicholas Taleb -
“Never listen to a leftist who does not give away his fortune or does not live the exact lifestyle he wants others to follow. What the French call “the caviar left,” la gauche caviar, or what Anglo-Saxons call champagne socialists, are people who advocate socialism, sometimes even communism, or some political system with sumptuary limitations, while overtly leading a lavish lifestyle, often financed by inheritance—not realizing the contradiction that they want others to avoid just such a lifestyle. It is not too different from the womanizing popes, such as John XII, or the Borgias. The contradiction can exceed the ludicrous as with French president François Mitterrand of France who, coming in on a socialist platform, emulated the pomp of French monarchs. Even more ironic, his traditional archenemy, the conservative General de Gaulle, led a life of old-style austerity and had his wife sew his socks.”
Re: Social Cooling – How big data is increasing pressure to conform
#189Earlier quoted context omitted.
"Virtue Signaling" is the most asinine, mean-spirited concept invented since about the middle ages. Its only ever used as a blanket dismissal of others' opinions, even going so far as to blatantly use the moral strength of an argument as a weapon against that argument.
Sure, my wife would mostly agree with you, I don't totally disagree either but try and see the context in why it has become widely used I am going to give you with a quote from Antifragile by Nassim Nicholas Taleb - “Never listen to a leftist who does not give away his fortune or does not live the exact lifestyle he wants others to follow. What the French call “the caviar left,” la gauche caviar, or what Anglo-Saxons…
That's pretty asinine too. You're not allowed to advocate a different life than the one you're leading? It's like the people saying you can't promote a greener environment if you still own a car. It's just another way of shutting them up by creating ridiculous moral standards and acting like you've 'caught them' at an inconsistency. Life is full of inconsistencies.
It's also too simple to equate advocating wealth redistribution with needing to give away your money. Giving away your fortune is probably not the best angle for wealth redistribution. Certain rules of fairness for the wealth redistribution may be needed. For example, it may be useful to fight for rules that get all relatively rich people to join in (aka taxes), which will create a much more powerful push for equality.
Re: Social Cooling – How big data is increasing pressure to conform
#190Earlier quoted context omitted.
Sure, my wife would mostly agree with you, I don't totally disagree either but try and see the context in why it has become widely used I am going to give you with a quote from Antifragile by Nassim Nicholas Taleb - “Never listen to a leftist who does not give away his fortune or does not live the exact lifestyle he wants others to follow. What the French call “the caviar left,” la gauche caviar, or what Anglo-Saxons…
That's pretty asinine too. You're not allowed to advocate a different life than the one you're leading? It's like the people saying you can't promote a greener environment if you still own a car. It's just another way of shutting them up by creating ridiculous moral standards and acting like you've 'caught them' at an inconsistency. Life is full of inconsistencies. It's also too simple to equate advocating wealth red…
Yes, there are people who use their wealth and influence responsibly for the betterment of others, this is the opposite of "trading in virtue"