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Social Cooling – How big data is increasing pressure to conform

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Re: Social Cooling – How big data is increasing pressure to conform

#151

Post by imhelpingu »

captainmuon wrote: post #59
bicubic wrote: post #3

I was going to write at length about my concerns on this topic, and then I decided not to. Because it's entirely possible that one day many years from now, a prospective employer/insurer/whatever finds such a comment and flags me for it. That's the cooling effect in a nutshell.

I've been saying this for a while: We as a society have to stop taking everything that is said on the internet so fucking seriously. You shouldn't have to think everything perfectly though that you write. It's OK to say something dumb, or even offensive. It's not great, but no big deal either. I don't want to live in a world where we have to polish and double-check every thought that leaves our minds. It used to be t…

People these days act like the internet didn't go just fine for decades without a bunch of wannabe hallway monitors and other officious bullshit.

Re: Social Cooling – How big data is increasing pressure to conform

#152

Post by watwut »

pmlnr wrote: post #134
michaelt wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You sure that isn't just you getting old? That's how it is for me.

No, it's not about getting old. In those days your social media site - or your blog - was heavily themed, altered,tailored to one's own ideas, sometimes to crazily annoyibg levels, sometimes to surprisingly clean minimalism. Today you have at maximum 2 images to make something 'unique', which doesn't even remotely scratches what it used to be during the early myspace era.

You still can host your own blog and style it however you wish. On github for free.

Re: Social Cooling – How big data is increasing pressure to conform

#153

Post by rXoX »

Once upon a time, the curator of each projected 'self' was biologically centralized and understood that each version of who we were had to be carefully parsed. There was 'out with the gang at the softball game' Joe, 'straight shooter at the office' Joe, and 'devil may care boyfriend' Joe, and each version understood their self expression within very specific contexts. Now, we have devices in which each version sits alongside the others. So deeply Personal Joe sees no harm in texting naughty messages to his girlfriend one moment, reaming out a coworker for their sloppy reports in an email and then instagramming April's great diving grab at the weekend game a few minutes later. So here we sit, curating the real self, for our new and mysterious friend, "third party". How ya'll liking it?

Re: Social Cooling – How big data is increasing pressure to conform

#154

Post by mfringel »

bem94 wrote: post #50
ocdtrekkie wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think there's any risk of that. As I pull out my favorite quote for the last few months: "It is difficult to get a man to understand something when his salary depends upon his not understanding it." - Upton Sinclair Very few people in the upper echelons of society (like highly-paid Silicon Valley engineers) truly believe they're doing something wrong, or could even be convinced they are doing something wrong.…

> "It is difficult to get a man to understand something when his salary depends upon his not understanding it." - Upton Sinclair One of my favourite quotes too, but I refuse to accept it as law. If people really do work at places like Google, Uber and Palantir to make the world a better place, then it suggests they would care if they are making the world a worse place inadvertantly, right? In which case it just takes…

You're missing the possibility that your definition of making the world a worse place is their definition of making the world a better place.

Re: Social Cooling – How big data is increasing pressure to conform

#155

Post by dredmorbius »

tpeo wrote: post #48
dredmorbius wrote: post #2

A related question: can privacy be quantified? And if so, how? On what bases? Thoughts I've had: Total quantity of data available? Ability to define boundaries? Ability to enforce those boundaries? Knowledge of what boundaries to even define? Who knows what about a person? How many agents know what? How aware is the subject of actual knowlesdgee? How rapidly can that knowledge be further transferred? Does the surveil…

"Knowlesdgee"? Anyway, I think you're forgetting one important dimension: whether the person in question would like that particular piece of information to be known.

Sigh. Soft keyboard keeps duping and misregistering ketstrokes.

That dimension is the setting of boundaries. E.g., "I don't wan't you to know, or share, or seek, or ask of some X." Or if it's acquired, not to share it except as specifically specified -- only with notice, on request, within a given grroup, for (or not for) a specific time, etc., etc.

Re: Social Cooling – How big data is increasing pressure to conform

#156

Post by dredmorbius »

wu-ikkyu wrote: post #22
dredmorbius wrote: post #2

A related question: can privacy be quantified? And if so, how? On what bases? Thoughts I've had: Total quantity of data available? Ability to define boundaries? Ability to enforce those boundaries? Knowledge of what boundaries to even define? Who knows what about a person? How many agents know what? How aware is the subject of actual knowlesdgee? How rapidly can that knowledge be further transferred? Does the surveil…

What is the goal in asking these questions?

Answers.

Or possibly just better questions.

Re: Social Cooling – How big data is increasing pressure to conform

#157

Post by dredmorbius »

jellicle wrote: post #91
vlasev wrote: post #64

Serious question - how viable would it be to implement some sort of data decay? I don't know how it would be implemented, on what schedule, and to what extent.

If even one person that has access to it makes a non-decaying copy, the decay has failed...

That depends on the person and their capabilities. It's more a probability distribution.

Re: Social Cooling – How big data is increasing pressure to conform

#158

Post by mncharity »

qwtel wrote: post #112
kirykl wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Thank you for applying to ProfitCorp. While you have excellent credentials and passed all levels of interviews, your web sentiment analysis score does not meet the threshold for hire. Best of luck in future endeavors"

> your web sentiment analysis score does not meet the threshold for hire except you would be lucky if one well-meaning employee would tell you the above sentence off the record in violation of every contract he/she singed with ProfitCorp. more likely, your life would be a mysterious series of surprise rejections with no or spurious reasons, the latter being especially insidious, since it would lead you to to believe…

Over the winter, I used a Trader Joe's padded/insulated bag for my laptop. Partially open, because of a broken zipper.

It took me a while to realize that the uptick in friendly conversations with drugstore workers, and the onset of being stalked in my local supermarket, was likely because I now matched some shoplifting profile. It's been a useful reminder of privilege. Though it seemed unfortunate to be wasting people's time.

But here's summer, and sometimes not carrying a laptop at all. And it appears my supermarket, of more than a decade, has retained state. And given they certainly have my card information, I have to wonder how far that state has propagated.

So when choosing a laptop bag, or breaking a zipper, or paying cash, or spotting a possible misunderstanding, you have to wonder, can you really afford to appear different than the norm?

You might be significantly impacted, before (or never) realizing what happened. And thus you get to share in that joy of racial discrimination, pervasive uncertainty. Did the cab really not see me, or choose to not see me? Why did X happen to me, what's going on here?

And yet, the concept of "nudge" has public policy value. Doing noisy profiling, and helping people do the right things.

There's an old line, that the internet is creating a global village. But villages are extremely diverse. From warm and fuzzy, to amazingly toxic. There are tremendous social benefits to "everyone knows you". I just wish I saw more thoughtful discussion of the roles of anonymity, and on aiming us away from toxic.

Re: Social Cooling – How big data is increasing pressure to conform

#159

Post by voidhorse »

socialcooling wrote: post #44
voidhorse wrote: post #11

I think the creator may be better off conducting a through philosophical investigation in efforts of pinning down the concept. You would be much better off giving full citations to Foucault and Deleuze, and full analysis into the Snowden incident and the fallout rather than a sort of half nod to, what I think, are the foundation beams of this concept. This page kind of assumes the audience is already willing to admit…

Author here: Being trained as a media theorist I understand your criticism (and am going to check out Horkheimer's essay, thanks for the tip!). But this website purposefully tries to keep things accessible in order to reach a wider audience. I often see how academics have a deep understanding of what's going on, but just aren't as good at spreading that insight to a wider audience, like the startup community.

Ah, that is a fair concern, and this approach makes sense if that is your goal.

Still, I think it's useful to point to some of the academic backing--like you already do with Foucault, just perhaps in greater depth. Maybe add some of that academic/conceptual source material to the further reading section--then again, might just distract from the main point. You know your target audience better than I do, I only have my particular reaction (which is probably a bit idiosyncratic and outside of the scope of your intended audience).

In any case this is a cool project and a noble effort. Hope you stick with it.

Re: Social Cooling – How big data is increasing pressure to conform

#160

Post by vladf »

socialcooling wrote: post #144
vladf wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure, but what I'm saying is that the above holds for non-mass surveillance as well. So if you're OK with offline systems of social reputation (which most people are, and it seems essential to the function of society), then you owe an explanation as to why your two points [discrimination on views, imperfect generalization] don't apply to offline systems of reputation.

The difference is: - scale - transparency (ability to complain or discuss decisions). - culture: people can recognize normal discrimination, but think algorithmic judgements are 'neutral'. Check out https://www.mathwashing.com

I wholeheartedly agree with the linked page (we should encourage this kind of scrutiny in algorithmic judgements). However, where there seems to be disagreement is that an algorithmic judgement is a step forward compared to offline, human judgement. An algorithm has fixed code, and fixed code is traceable and auditable. Yes, it might be hard. Yes, legislation may not be there, but it's possible. Compare this to human judgement: 10 years ago, if HR threw out your resume, you have no recourse. Today, if an algorithm automatically rejects your resume, we at least have a path to potential recourse in the future, since you can analyze an algorithm's decision making. A human's judgment is only more opaque. Essentially, when you say:

> people can recognize normal discrimination

I don't see how you can reliably recognize discrimination in any way that can't also be applied to the decisions of a computer program.

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