Earlier quoted context omitted.
Well in this case the market is distorted by the fact that regulations allow the airline to not let people board for a much smaller cost. If the airline didn't have that legal out, they would be forced to negotiate terms with each passenger whose contract they wanted to break.
They didn't even hit that limit before they sent in the goons in this case, though.
Southwest to Stop Overbooking as United Uproar Echoes
181–190 of 335 posts
Re: Southwest to Stop Overbooking as United Uproar Echoes
#182Earlier quoted context omitted.
Canned friendliness is, IMO, worse than brusque professionalism.
Especially on Delta and American, I don't even get brusque professionalism, I get outright rudeness. The longer I've lived in the US, the more I've learned to minimize conversations to flight attendants to "I'll just have water", "thanks" and "have a nice day". AirTran (now part of Southwest) used to be really nice.
Re: Southwest to Stop Overbooking as United Uproar Echoes
#183Earlier quoted context omitted.
Well, there is more fuel left in the tank, so there is less on the refill so yes it does save fuel, not much but it does save some. I prefer no refunds for no-show policy myself, that is how it works when I buy a ticket to see a play. Now refundable upto 48 hours before the flight might be even fairer.
The fuel increase is marginal. You still have to burn fuel to carry that fuel to the next airport. And you have to carry the airframe with capacity for that empty seat. The 100 kg for a passenger+luggage is much less than the fractional weight of the plane required to carry them! For some numbers, a 777-200 carries 313 passengers, weighs 135k kg, carries up to 100k kg of fuel, and has a max takeoff weight of about 25…
Just write tonnes (= metric tons)?
Re: Southwest to Stop Overbooking as United Uproar Echoes
#184Earlier quoted context omitted.
Anecdotally, boarding speed is not my major complaint - failing to secure an aisle seat, however, is.
Fast boarding speeds lowers their cost. That's one of the reasons Southwest can often be much cheaper than other airlines.
Re: Southwest to Stop Overbooking as United Uproar Echoes
#185Southwest Airlines has the best website, best checked luggage policy, best change policy, and now no overbooking. The big four domestic airlines all treat coach passengers like cattle, but Southwest is the least predatory. Edit: Also, consider that Southwest is very profitable despite the fact that they don't have first class or business class sections on their aircraft. Yes, passengers pay different fares. But as fa…
Southwest has never had a fatal accident (as a passenger). That is damn good. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Southwest_Airlines_Flight_1248
Re: Southwest to Stop Overbooking as United Uproar Echoes
#186Southwest Airlines has the best website, best checked luggage policy, best change policy, and now no overbooking. The big four domestic airlines all treat coach passengers like cattle, but Southwest is the least predatory. Edit: Also, consider that Southwest is very profitable despite the fact that they don't have first class or business class sections on their aircraft. Yes, passengers pay different fares. But as fa…
Virgin America[0] has a better website, in my opinion. Southwest has always been nice to me, but when they had their big outage in May 2016 they were quite rude to everyone. https://www.virginamerica.com/
Re: Southwest to Stop Overbooking as United Uproar Echoes
#187This response feels knee jerk. It's been demonstrated in countless other threads (1) and articles (2) how economically important it is to overbook. Overbooking is central to airline profitability and their ability to provide flexibility - like partial refunds, or SW's "open tickets" policy on business select. As a consumer I appreciate these things and find them incredibly useful. United's response of "We'll push the…
Overbooking is a technique used by legacy airlines. Pure LCCs don't use it (certainly in Europe) because their tickets are non-refundable other than from EC261 claims and they don't have inter-lining or partnerships with other carriers. I'm surprised Southwest were overbooking in the first place given they're a budget airline... Edit: An exception may be Easyjet (though I've never seen it happen and I fly them a lot)…
Let's take two airlines, A and B. Both only sell non-refundable tickes. A never overbooks. B always overbooks. What happens?
A will fly with some number of empty seats on average, because they still get the occasional no-show. B flies with fewer empty seats on average because they overbook.
Which airline can offer more competitive prices? It's B. Because by overbooking B's revenue per plane leg is higher.
If that isn't clear, here's an example. Say the planes have a capacity of 100, and on average 2 people fail to show. A sells 100 tickets for $100.00 each. B sells 101 tickets for $99.02 each. On average, B makes more money on every flight, _and_ is more competitive on price.
Of course with the numbers in my example the compensation paid by B on the odd occasion that everyone shows up probably kills any additional profit. The real numbers matter in order to determine to what extent this really happens in practice. But I hope I've demonstrated that non-refundability of tickets doesn't necessarily or automatically mean that overbooking is not profitable.
So there is some potential level of competitive benefit to overbooking even on non-refundable tickets, assuming that some people still occasionally fail to show (because they miss a connection, become ill, or whatever).
Re: Southwest to Stop Overbooking as United Uproar Echoes
#188Earlier quoted context omitted.
Fast boarding speeds lowers their cost. That's one of the reasons Southwest can often be much cheaper than other airlines.
Any time I fly I try to get the lowest possible fare by using priceline/kayak/whatever. Southwest never comes up among the lowest prices.
If Southwest covers your route, their fares are almost always going to be competitive with the lowest price. Where Southwest is not good is when you have longer flights (cross country) which will almost always entail stops and or changing planes. But it is great for short stuff like flying between OAK/LAX/SFO/PHX/LAS.
Re: Southwest to Stop Overbooking as United Uproar Echoes
#189Earlier quoted context omitted.
Yea, I agree the problem is not auctioning seats high enough. But the proximate issue is that United didn't offer cash, but $800 in United Fun Bux that are worthless for most people. The vouchers they were offering were only valid at dates United decided. The vouchers expired after a year. And they are offered in coupons for which you can only use one coupon per flight, and the excess value is lost. Practically all n…
Vouchers like that are egregious. Now that it's too late, United is now offering up to $10k if they can't get someone to volunteer for less.
Re: Southwest to Stop Overbooking as United Uproar Echoes
#190The problem isn't overbooking. The problem is not auctioning the seats higher when overbooked. I've seen a number of overbooked southwest flights and people can't line up fast enough for a $300 flight credit + next available flight. I can't imagine it ever going over $1k. IMHO if any airline should continue overbooking it's SWA. No first class, no assigned seats. Most of the flights are short range with multiple flig…
Want never to be bumped? Travel alone but with a pet in the hold. They won't touch you. Or travel with someone in a wheelchair. They are also an expensive awkward person to bump. As I said to one gate person: "We cannot be bumped. My grandmother only has pills for the next 12 hours." That lit a fire under them. Grandma knew to play ball and suddenly looked very much older than she was.