Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Southwest to Stop Overbooking as United Uproar Echoes

bloomberg.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

81–90 of 335 posts

Re: Southwest to Stop Overbooking as United Uproar Echoes

#81

Post by corford »

aresant wrote: post #12

This response feels knee jerk. It's been demonstrated in countless other threads (1) and articles (2) how economically important it is to overbook. Overbooking is central to airline profitability and their ability to provide flexibility - like partial refunds, or SW's "open tickets" policy on business select. As a consumer I appreciate these things and find them incredibly useful. United's response of "We'll push the…

Overbooking is a technique used by legacy airlines. Pure LCCs don't use it (certainly in Europe) because their tickets are non-refundable other than from EC261 claims and they don't have inter-lining or partnerships with other carriers. I'm surprised Southwest were overbooking in the first place given they're a budget airline...

Edit: An exception may be Easyjet (though I've never seen it happen and I fly them a lot). They offer flex tickets mainly aimed at business flyers which would make it worthwhile for them to do some limited overbooking.

Re: Southwest to Stop Overbooking as United Uproar Echoes

#82

Post by corford »

thesumofall wrote: post #72
toyg wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yep, the main difference in Ryanair's model is that basically all tickets are nonrefundable. This way, even if the plane leaves half-empty on the day despite being fully booked, it will have paid for itself - which is what should happen, really. What you lose by renouncing overbooking is the ability to change your ticket without paying for it again (which is what happen with Ryanair - fees to alter bookings are so hu…

That's not really an argument. Profits could have been even higher if they had leveraged overbooking. And some of Ryanair's tickets are certainly below marginal costs - making me wonder if really all fights pay for themselves that easily. My guess why they don't use overbooking: it's really complicated. Both finding the right balance of overbooking as well as managing the procedures at the airport. Ryanair has simply…

Ryanair are running at >90% seat capacity across their routes, without overbooking. Not sure the complexity of introducing it would be worth the gain given their load factors.

Edit: then again, with their relatively recent business plus fare (which allows ticket holders some flexibility), who knows...

Re: Southwest to Stop Overbooking as United Uproar Echoes

#84

Post by amorphid »

corford wrote: post #81
aresant wrote: post #12

This response feels knee jerk. It's been demonstrated in countless other threads (1) and articles (2) how economically important it is to overbook. Overbooking is central to airline profitability and their ability to provide flexibility - like partial refunds, or SW's "open tickets" policy on business select. As a consumer I appreciate these things and find them incredibly useful. United's response of "We'll push the…

Overbooking is a technique used by legacy airlines. Pure LCCs don't use it (certainly in Europe) because their tickets are non-refundable other than from EC261 claims and they don't have inter-lining or partnerships with other carriers. I'm surprised Southwest were overbooking in the first place given they're a budget airline... Edit: An exception may be Easyjet (though I've never seen it happen and I fly them a lot)…

Southwest flights aren't that cheap unless you book in advance. And they used to (still might?) have a very flexible refund policy. You could not show up for a flight, never call, and still get a full credit for the value of your ticket to any other Southwest flight in the next 12 months w/ no penalty. I really like Southwest.

Re: Southwest to Stop Overbooking as United Uproar Echoes

#85

Post by SilasX »

aresant wrote: post #12

This response feels knee jerk. It's been demonstrated in countless other threads (1) and articles (2) how economically important it is to overbook. Overbooking is central to airline profitability and their ability to provide flexibility - like partial refunds, or SW's "open tickets" policy on business select. As a consumer I appreciate these things and find them incredibly useful. United's response of "We'll push the…

I understand the benefits of overbooking and I think it's an overreaction to stop it entirely.

But, couldn't they make the tradeoff more explicit and transparent for the customer? "This ticket allows you to be bumped, for which you will be paid $X. You can pay $Y more to make it a permanent you-own-this-slot-we're-not-f'ing-around reservation."

None of this, "oh, you didn't read and memorize the minutiae of overbooking policies and have to figure everything out minutes before the flight you thought you were going to be on!"

Re: Southwest to Stop Overbooking as United Uproar Echoes

#86

Post by cnnsucks »

aresant wrote: post #12

This response feels knee jerk. It's been demonstrated in countless other threads (1) and articles (2) how economically important it is to overbook. Overbooking is central to airline profitability and their ability to provide flexibility - like partial refunds, or SW's "open tickets" policy on business select. As a consumer I appreciate these things and find them incredibly useful. United's response of "We'll push the…

The first claim in your first link... exactly what I expected to find: "By overbooking it actually does help keep the fares down"

Money. Low low prices. That's why people that have paid for tickets are getting beat up and kicked off planes.

In all sorts of other aspects of our world we're expected to gladly accept higher costs as the price of our "values." Higher energy costs, mandates for various types of insurance, taxes to fund one agenda or another and on and on. Perhaps you haven't considered this yet but delivering the seat that a paying customer has paid for and not subjecting any of these otherwise compliant paying customers to the possibility of being thrown off a plane --- by martial force if necessary --- is a "value" we might aspire to.

And if that means maybe you are a little more careful about just how often you bop across the continent in a 600 mph jet because the cost is a little higher, or you can't play ticket games with as much abandon as you're used to well... perhaps that isn't really the end of the world.

Re: Southwest to Stop Overbooking as United Uproar Echoes

#87

Post by smokey_the_bear »

Veratyr wrote: post #56
chmaynard wrote: post #16

Southwest Airlines has the best website, best checked luggage policy, best change policy, and now no overbooking. The big four domestic airlines all treat coach passengers like cattle, but Southwest is the least predatory. Edit: Also, consider that Southwest is very profitable despite the fact that they don't have first class or business class sections on their aircraft. Yes, passengers pay different fares. But as fa…

To offer a counterpoint, Southwest also offers the worst boarding procedure, unless travelling alone or with kids. My wife and I were going on vacation and it was impossible to get seats together as we were pretty far back in the assigned line positions and by the time we got on the plane, there were no two vacant seats next to each other. After landing we discovered that checking in at the right time might get us fu…

My proposal is that southwest allow people traveling in pairs to board before the C group, and require that they sit next to each other.

On my last flight, I was traveling with a four year old, but my first flight arrived late, so we were the last ones on the connection. There were only middle seats left (and the flight attendant was rude about it). A woman and her husband were sitting in A & C seats, and one of them moved for us. But they could have sat together if everyone had just sat more efficiently.

Selling the right to sit next to your travel companions seems much sleazier to me than selling other airplane perks, like more luggage or snacks or specific seats.

Re: Southwest to Stop Overbooking as United Uproar Echoes

#88

Post by corford »

amorphid wrote: post #84
corford wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Overbooking is a technique used by legacy airlines. Pure LCCs don't use it (certainly in Europe) because their tickets are non-refundable other than from EC261 claims and they don't have inter-lining or partnerships with other carriers. I'm surprised Southwest were overbooking in the first place given they're a budget airline... Edit: An exception may be Easyjet (though I've never seen it happen and I fly them a lot)…

Southwest flights aren't that cheap unless you book in advance. And they used to (still might?) have a very flexible refund policy. You could not show up for a flight, never call, and still get a full credit for the value of your ticket to any other Southwest flight in the next 12 months w/ no penalty. I really like Southwest.

I've never used them and admittedly don't know much about their model (the only time I fly US carriers is when I'm crossing the pond from Europe).

Re: Southwest to Stop Overbooking as United Uproar Echoes

#89

Post by sotojuan »

milquetoastaf wrote: post #51
aresant wrote: post #12

This response feels knee jerk. It's been demonstrated in countless other threads (1) and articles (2) how economically important it is to overbook. Overbooking is central to airline profitability and their ability to provide flexibility - like partial refunds, or SW's "open tickets" policy on business select. As a consumer I appreciate these things and find them incredibly useful. United's response of "We'll push the…

Yep you're right, everyone employed by Southwest to research and implement this apparently crucial detail of airline travel has no idea what they are doing and totally fucked up. I honestly think hacker news should implement a feature where your comment is read back to you slowly before you post. Or you have to retype it out twice. Something, anything, to give the blowhards on here pause before they bless us with the…

What? Being a computer nerd doesn't mean I know everything about everything?!

Re: Southwest to Stop Overbooking as United Uproar Echoes

#90

Post by brandonmenc »

WillPostForFood wrote: post #74
Veratyr wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To offer a counterpoint, Southwest also offers the worst boarding procedure, unless travelling alone or with kids. My wife and I were going on vacation and it was impossible to get seats together as we were pretty far back in the assigned line positions and by the time we got on the plane, there were no two vacant seats next to each other. After landing we discovered that checking in at the right time might get us fu…

Counter-counter point: Southwest boards faster, by far, than airlines using the standard pre-assigned method. That means less time sitting on the plane, or waiting to board the place. Also means less abuse of selling seat upgrades.

Anecdotally, boarding speed is not my major complaint - failing to secure an aisle seat, however, is.
Post reply on HN