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Uber Now Tracks Passengers’ Locations Even After They’re Dropped Off

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Re: Uber Now Tracks Passengers’ Locations Even After They’re Dropped Off

#181

Post by babesh »

omarforgotpwd wrote: post #65
DenisM wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you kill an app on the iOS, it stays dead until you launch it again, iirc.

it stays dead until the system decides to reload it. It may decide to do this for various reasons such a entering a geofence, significant location update, or push notification. But turning off background app refresh should prevent all of these things from turning on your app I think. Also low power mode can also be used as a sort of incognito mode because it stops all background activity to preserve battery.

Geofence, significant location change, and push waking up the app don't happen on user forced shutdown. App urls though are a different matter. :)

I am not totally sure of geofencing.

Re: Uber Now Tracks Passengers’ Locations Even After They’re Dropped Off

#182

Post by [deleted] »

omarforgotpwd wrote: post #65
DenisM wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you kill an app on the iOS, it stays dead until you launch it again, iirc.

it stays dead until the system decides to reload it. It may decide to do this for various reasons such a entering a geofence, significant location update, or push notification. But turning off background app refresh should prevent all of these things from turning on your app I think. Also low power mode can also be used as a sort of incognito mode because it stops all background activity to preserve battery.

[deleted]

Re: Uber Now Tracks Passengers’ Locations Even After They’re Dropped Off

#183

Post by pdkl95 »

bastawhiz wrote: post #122
visakanv wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Individual users' data is very closely guarded internally. It's immensely difficult to look at user data without specific access. Overwhelmingly, this data is queried in aggregate and fed into machine learning systems. The risk of abuse is exceptionally low. But so you're saying it's possible? Somebody with high enough access at Uber might be able to stalk an ex-girlfriend and follow her home? Getting into trouble…

I mean, at the end of the day, there's someone that can SSH into some server if they were really determined. There's logging and auditing that happens, though, so you'd almost certainly get caught. Could you craft some sort of perfect crime to avoid detection? It would be super hard, but there's no universe with perfectly secure software. It's a big system, and there are thousands of moving parts, and the likelihood…

> there's no universe with perfectly secure software

This is why it's important to minimize the attack surface. Yes, there is always going to be risk when you store tracking data. You are choosing to create that risk by storing any data beyond what is specifically necessary. Uses such as "Optimizing pickups and dropoffs" are optional, which you more or less admit when you said it was something "we could do".

Alternatively, you could prioritize the safety of your customers by minimizing the risks they acquire when they use your service. The data collected for the ride could be minimized. You could expunge user data when it is no longer needed. You could find ways to store only aggregate data instead per-user values.

> we put safeguards in place

You also made design and business decisions that created the need for those safeguards. You are protecting your users from a problem that you created.

edit:

> we do our best to serve our users as best we can

You could be indemnifying you users for any damages that derive from the data you are choosing to store.

Re: Uber Now Tracks Passengers’ Locations Even After They’re Dropped Off

#184

Post by coldtea »

yladiz wrote: post #34

I saw this earlier and had hopes that the update would just let me choose "While Using" in the app settings, like some other apps allow you even if they request access even while not using the app, but the settings only allow for "Always" or "Never" on iPhone. However, you can use Uber without allowing GPS, so it's not all or nothing. I'm a little disturbed that they need any information after I use Uber though. They…

>why do they need to know where I'm at after I get dropped off? That's a little intrusive to me

A little?

Re: Uber Now Tracks Passengers’ Locations Even After They’re Dropped Off

#185

Post by btgeekboy »

electic wrote: post #100

There is something very powerful you can do: 1. Stop using uber. Delete it. There is Lyft and Juno (in select markets). 2. Tell your friends about the dangers of using Uber. You can make a profound change by voting with your pocket book. Lastly, believe it or not, a lot of your friends look to you for tech advice. Be vocal.

When people ask why I use Lyft instead of Uber, I tell them about their sleazy actions a few years back (journalist intimidation, "god mode", etc.). I now have an up to date example to add.

Thanks, Uber!

Re: Uber Now Tracks Passengers’ Locations Even After They’re Dropped Off

#186

Post by uberq »

bastawhiz wrote: post #91
yladiz wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, but why does Uber need/care about that information? If I ask to be dropped off at X and walk a couple blocks to Y, Uber shouldn't care. I can understand the argument that maybe going to certain buildings you have to be dropped off at a specific spot, but that seems like a minor gain for something that's more than just a minor intrusion.

(Uber engineer here) The data is used for (or can be used for) a number of practical and important purposes. These are some examples of what we do as well as what we could do with such data: - Fighting fraud - Improving "suggested pickup" locations - Improvements around POOL (we'd rather suggest a location that's easy to pick up from than one that's unsafe) - Figuring out what side of the street you end up on (we can…

None of these use cases demand "always" to be the only choice, with no way to choose "while using".

Your company is grossly overstepping privacy bounds, and your excuse making post is largely irrelevant. And it's wholly reasonable to be distrustful of a place where execs threaten to blackmail journalists and remain employed. It'd be ridiculous to trust Uber.

Re: Uber Now Tracks Passengers’ Locations Even After They’re Dropped Off

#187

Post by coldtea »

bastawhiz wrote: post #142
ak2196 wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>> The risk of abuse is exceptionally low. I call bullshit. This coming from the same guys who were mapping one night stands using ride data? What were you guys studying there. Fornicating habits of young adults in large metropolitans? http://www.whosdrivingyou.org/blog/ubers-deleted-rides-of-gl... I almost forgot about the time you guys were tracking journalists. Uber has a reputation and history of being a "shady"…

> Uber has a reputation and history of being a "shady" company. I'm not going to try to defend our reputation. But it's worth saying that things are locked down _pretty damn tight_ around sensitive data. I've worked in enterprise file storage in the past, and the internal security at Uber is far better (relatively speaking), and continues to mature.

>But it's worth saying that things are locked down _pretty damn tight_ around sensitive data.

Which means absolutely nothing as an assurance. Even if that's the case today, in 5 or 10 years the company could go down, or change CEO and be all about exploiting the data, or selling it to advertisers or whatever. Or it could just be a hack that releases millions of ride information (it has happened to the best of web services).

That's the problem when you store data, making whether you have some "pretty damn tight locks" in place irrelevant.

Re: Uber Now Tracks Passengers’ Locations Even After They’re Dropped Off

#188

Post by uberq »

berberous wrote: post #157
amluto wrote: post #26

I really wish that both Android and iOS had an option to outright prevent an app from doing anything in the background. No sensors, no location, no push notifications, no network access, no CPU time, URL protocols, no nothing. If I don't click the little app icon, the app shouldn't run, full stop.

I wish iOS forced all apps to offer "Always/While Using/Never" for location info. It's bullshit that Uber can refuse to offer the middle choice.

A thousand times this.

Re: Uber Now Tracks Passengers’ Locations Even After They’re Dropped Off

#189

Post by [deleted] »

berberous wrote: post #157
amluto wrote: post #26

I really wish that both Android and iOS had an option to outright prevent an app from doing anything in the background. No sensors, no location, no push notifications, no network access, no CPU time, URL protocols, no nothing. If I don't click the little app icon, the app shouldn't run, full stop.

I wish iOS forced all apps to offer "Always/While Using/Never" for location info. It's bullshit that Uber can refuse to offer the middle choice.

[deleted]

Re: Uber Now Tracks Passengers’ Locations Even After They’re Dropped Off

#190

Post by baddox »

visakanv wrote: post #101
baddox wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You seem to be implying that they are violating privacy just for the heck of it. That's ignoring the very obvious value (even to customers) of this specific type of data. As the other commenter mentioned, knowing where humans choose to be dropped off when heading to a specific location is of obvious value.

> You seem to be implying that they are violating privacy just for the heck of it. Why not both? Why not collect all the information you possibly can, whether or not you immediately see obvious value to it, and then find ways to justify it later?

I'm not claiming that they don't collect as much data as possible including data with no immediate use. Perhaps they do. I don't know. I'm claiming that this instance does not appear to demonstrate them doing so.
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