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Jeff Bezos Says Amazon Won’t Tolerate ‘Callous’ Management Practices

nytimes.com

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Re: Jeff Bezos Says Amazon Won’t Tolerate ‘Callous’ Management Practices

#181

Post by bdavisx »

branchless wrote: post #124
rdtsc wrote: post #4

> But if you know of any stories like those reported, I want you to escalate to HR. You can also email me directly at jeff@amazon.com. Even if it’s rare or isolated, our tolerance for any such lack of empathy needs to be zero. I say don't escalate to HR but leave to work at another place. HR is not your advocate, it is not there to help you. You are just a "resource" just like it says in the name. There have been man…

Here is what I've learned in my time on earth: > you can't change the system but you can change the system you are in Just leave.

I've heard it put: "If you can't change your company, then change your company."

Re: Jeff Bezos Says Amazon Won’t Tolerate ‘Callous’ Management Practices

#182

Post by timfrietas »

MCRed wrote: post #151

Escalate to HR? That's exactly what I did. Jeff is spinning his typical BS. My boss was abusive, drove off %70 of the team and was dealing drugs to other employees in the PacMed garage. He lied to me many times, and I started documenting it. I went to HR about it, trying to get support so I could transfer out to a team at AWS, where I knew the manager and he had offered me a job. The HR person assured me that everyth…

    the PacMed garage.
I helped turn the lights out in that building over five years ago. I am no Amazon apologist, but I do think it is worth mentioning your experience is also not recent.

Re: Jeff Bezos Says Amazon Won’t Tolerate ‘Callous’ Management Practices

#183

Post by richmarr »

anotherangrydev wrote: post #119
richmarr wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I once got fired because I told some bitch... In that one line I think there's two issues you might want to think about. First of all, you're passing judgement apparently without empathising with where she's coming from. If you try to empathise with people rather than letting your amygdala control your response then you'll find life gets much easier. Secondly, that language crosses the line of acceptability, both i…

Rich, you know what dignity is? Dignity is being the same person disregarding the situation where you're currently involved. I see you standing here as a person who is always polite and correct, with a perfect vocabulary and behavior for even the most adverse situations in life. I really, really hope your life crosses path with a woman like that one and you end up in a situation like mine. I would like to see you han…

> I see you standing here as a person who is always polite and correct...

Nope. I've had more than my fair share of disagreements, personal failures, and shameful moments. I've lost friends. I massively fumbled my first management position.

When something happens and your professionalism slips, either you can brush yourself off, accept your mistakes, and try to learn from them, or you can blame others, make excuses, and learn nothing.

So far, your analysis of the situation has loudly blamed the "bitch" and the entire profession of HR, and not once has your critical gaze fallen onto yourself. Apparently they're all wrong, and you are right.

You can try to goad me about my motives for replying and wish me misfortune, but it doesn't change anything.

Re: Jeff Bezos Says Amazon Won’t Tolerate ‘Callous’ Management Practices

#184

Post by gnurag »

Pxtl wrote: post #39
rdtsc wrote: post #4

> But if you know of any stories like those reported, I want you to escalate to HR. You can also email me directly at jeff@amazon.com. Even if it’s rare or isolated, our tolerance for any such lack of empathy needs to be zero. I say don't escalate to HR but leave to work at another place. HR is not your advocate, it is not there to help you. You are just a "resource" just like it says in the name. There have been man…

http://dilbert.com/strip/2011-02-20

Its amazing how Dilbert has a comic strip about almost every corporate quirkiness.

Re: Jeff Bezos Says Amazon Won’t Tolerate ‘Callous’ Management Practices

#185

Post by rrss1122 »

rdtsc wrote: post #4

> But if you know of any stories like those reported, I want you to escalate to HR. You can also email me directly at jeff@amazon.com. Even if it’s rare or isolated, our tolerance for any such lack of empathy needs to be zero. I say don't escalate to HR but leave to work at another place. HR is not your advocate, it is not there to help you. You are just a "resource" just like it says in the name. There have been man…

From all that's come out over the weekend, it sounds like former Amazon employees are quite welcome over at Facebook. Plus, like Bezos says in his all-hands e-mail, these people are recruited every day. If they are in a situation like that, escalating to HR won't make it better, changing jobs will.

Re: Jeff Bezos Says Amazon Won’t Tolerate ‘Callous’ Management Practices

#186

Post by hga »

gnurag wrote: post #184
Pxtl wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

http://dilbert.com/strip/2011-02-20

Its amazing how Dilbert has a comic strip about almost every corporate quirkiness.

What he didn't learn first hand at Crocker National Bank and Pacific Bell was forwarded to him by others. As Wikipedia puts it (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scott_Adams#Office_worker): "Adams attributes his success to his idea of including his e-mail address in the panels, thus facilitating feedback from readers."

Re: Jeff Bezos Says Amazon Won’t Tolerate ‘Callous’ Management Practices

#187

Post by kdamken »

I'm always blown away when I read things like this:

"Even many Amazonians who have worked on Wall Street and at start-ups say the workloads at the new South Lake Union campus can be extreme: marathon conference calls on Easter Sunday and Thanksgiving, criticism from bosses for spotty Internet access on vacation, and hours spent working at home most nights or weekends."

Is this something people are proud of? You're working for a shipping company, how do you get that brainwashed that you sign your life away like that? I understand as you move up the ranks in seniority more is expected of you, but I'm always surprised by the lack of self respect and boundaries people have for themselves in professional environments.

Re: Jeff Bezos Says Amazon Won’t Tolerate ‘Callous’ Management Practices

#188

Post by joezydeco »

MCRed wrote: post #151

Escalate to HR? That's exactly what I did. Jeff is spinning his typical BS. My boss was abusive, drove off %70 of the team and was dealing drugs to other employees in the PacMed garage. He lied to me many times, and I started documenting it. I went to HR about it, trying to get support so I could transfer out to a team at AWS, where I knew the manager and he had offered me a job. The HR person assured me that everyth…

After reading all these threads it's becoming more apprarent that AWS is a different animal than the rest of Amazon, especially the marketing and sales arms where the real pressure is.

But, this being HN, we see a disproportionate amount of AWS engineers chiming in going "hmm. everything's cool here."

Re: Jeff Bezos Says Amazon Won’t Tolerate ‘Callous’ Management Practices

#189

Post by jazzyk »

dpark wrote: post #171
jazzyk wrote: post #163

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You missed one word - "politely". One can be polite and still convey the intended message :-) She obviously got it, hence the revenge.

I didn't miss the word. I just don't believe it's accurate. If the intended message was "fuck off", there's no polite way to deliver that. You might deliver it without literally saying the words, but if the meaning is intact, you're not being polite. I also don't believe a politely delivered message can result in a 3-month plot filled with false reports, culminating in job termination. How does that play out? "Wow, h…

My developer friend had to work with a program/product manager from hell. They hated each other's guts from the minute they met. He was tasked by the CTO with implementing new software and kept asking her for definitive requirements. She never came up with them and told him to propose something based on some loose, very high-level requirements. When he did, she critiqued the solutions in a meeting attended by many people. He never said it, but made it clear (not in the meeting) that she was incompetent/lazy, which she was, in many co-worker's eyes. She tried to get him fired several times (unsuccessfully, my friend was really good and the CTO would not do it).

Not one impolite word was ever spoken (I know for sure, I was there in most meetings).

Sometimes it is just "bad chemistry".

Re: Jeff Bezos Says Amazon Won’t Tolerate ‘Callous’ Management Practices

#190

Post by asgard1024 »

jazzyk wrote: post #168
asgard1024 wrote: post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What a revolutionary idea! Seriously though, I wonder why humans tolerate the hierarchical structures so much. I am proponent of direct democracy and worker cooperatives but curiously enough, to many people the idea seems wrong.

Flat structures work great for smaller organizations, but don't scale up with size. That said, a bigger organization could still be structured like a federation of relatively independent businesses/departments, with clearly defined interactions (interfaces) between them, rather than a monolith. Modular design benefits business as much as it does software architecture.

Perhaps better would be if I said "authoritarian" rather than "hierarchical". I don't think democracy requires lack of hierarchy. Or take the development of Linux kernel - although hierarchical, everybody has the same power.

And it can scale quite well. Switzerland and Mondragon are good examples.

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