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Jeff Bezos Says Amazon Won’t Tolerate ‘Callous’ Management Practices

nytimes.com

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Re: Jeff Bezos Says Amazon Won’t Tolerate ‘Callous’ Management Practices

#31

Post by GnomeChomsky »

anotherangrydev wrote: post #22
rdtsc wrote: post #4

> But if you know of any stories like those reported, I want you to escalate to HR. You can also email me directly at jeff@amazon.com. Even if it’s rare or isolated, our tolerance for any such lack of empathy needs to be zero. I say don't escalate to HR but leave to work at another place. HR is not your advocate, it is not there to help you. You are just a "resource" just like it says in the name. There have been man…

HR is never your friend. Aside from the job they're required to do, HR usually attracts people with despicable morals and class. They wont hesitate on lying to you, set you up on to something, threaten you, whatever it takes to get what they (personally) want. Stay clear of HR, that is true for 99% of jobs.

Aren't people with "despicable morals and class" in every profession? Some of us are actually in HR because we like thinking critically & creatively behind the scenes to make others successful. I totally get why that might not describe the HR teams you've encountered, but I don't think we can all be characterized with such a broad brush.

Re: Jeff Bezos Says Amazon Won’t Tolerate ‘Callous’ Management Practices

#33

Post by seibelj »

amirmc wrote: post #12
seibelj wrote: post #3

I've been reading various comments about this around the internet and many people are saying they will stop ordering from Amazon because of it. These white collar workers are highly paid, and not forced to be there. Most of them could easily find another job someplace else (and it sounds like many do). I just can't feel bad for them. If you don't want to work throughout your vacation, go find another job that won't m…

That reasoning could also be applied to anyone who's suffering in an abusive relationship (whether emotional or physical). It would be inappropriate then, just as it's inappropriate here. In addition, not everything has to be decided solely by where one spends their money. It's entirely possible to put pressure on an organisation through other means.

This isn't a man who is beating his wife. The employee doesn't have the social pressure to stay with someone they married rather than face the shame of divorce. The employee doesn't have a part of them that is literally in love with the abuser (a company).

It's a stretch to use the 'abused spouse' argument with highly educated knowledge workers making 6 figure salaries. Find a new job.

Re: Jeff Bezos Says Amazon Won’t Tolerate ‘Callous’ Management Practices

#34

Post by nilkn »

seibelj wrote: post #3

I've been reading various comments about this around the internet and many people are saying they will stop ordering from Amazon because of it. These white collar workers are highly paid, and not forced to be there. Most of them could easily find another job someplace else (and it sounds like many do). I just can't feel bad for them. If you don't want to work throughout your vacation, go find another job that won't m…

I really do not think that someone being well-paid is justification for treating them poorly. Surely an employee should just be treated well, period. I actually think your line of thinking here is incredibly dangerous -- you seem to think that if someone is well-paid it's okay to treat them like dirt, as if you have to balance things out somehow.

And regardless of how well-paid any of them may or may not be (keep in mind these are not just the developers), they all might have made real sacrifices in their lives to work for Amazon without realizing what they were getting into. Quitting a beloved former job for what appeared to be a much needed pay raise, moving cross country with your family, etc...

I'm not boycotting anything but everyone has a right to be upset when they're mistreated.

Re: Jeff Bezos Says Amazon Won’t Tolerate ‘Callous’ Management Practices

#35

Post by fruzz »

sagivo wrote: post #11

I'm in the process of joining Amazon as a software engineer manager. I don't know how to respond to this article and if to continue the process with them.

I passed the interview process and was offered a position at Amazon. I was lucky enough to be offered another position the same week. I went for the latter, for many reasons, but a big one was the documented lack of work-life balance at Amazon. I love what I do, but life is short, life is precious, and I'm not going to give up the limited time I have with those I love for the sake of a job if I'm so lucky as to have the choice.

Re: Jeff Bezos Says Amazon Won’t Tolerate ‘Callous’ Management Practices

#36

Post by brudgers »

wpietri wrote: post #18

For years I've had an academic interest in alternative religions. (As an atheist, I find them endlessly fascinating, as it lets you see more of how the dominant religions came to be.) One of those most interesting things I've come across related to that was the ABCDEF: http://www.neopagan.net/ABCDEF.html It was put together decades ago by a pagan who wanted to help people see the difference between people who were up…

How did you rate HN?

Re: Jeff Bezos Says Amazon Won’t Tolerate ‘Callous’ Management Practices

#37

Post by masklinn »

jaegerpicker wrote: post #30
rdtsc wrote: post #4

> But if you know of any stories like those reported, I want you to escalate to HR. You can also email me directly at jeff@amazon.com. Even if it’s rare or isolated, our tolerance for any such lack of empathy needs to be zero. I say don't escalate to HR but leave to work at another place. HR is not your advocate, it is not there to help you. You are just a "resource" just like it says in the name. There have been man…

Only if you work in a very poor workplace. If your workplace HR has this attitude you should have not joined the company in the first place. You should escalate to the next higher up if the manager in question is not being correctly handled by HR.

> Only if you work in a very poor workplace.

Or a standard workplace with shit legal protection of employees (which applies to pretty much every non-union US shop). The purpose of HR is to minimise company liability, when the best and simplest way to minimise company liability is to fire employees making waves stat, that's what they do, because that what they're employed to do.

Re: Jeff Bezos Says Amazon Won’t Tolerate ‘Callous’ Management Practices

#38

Post by a_c_s »

seibelj wrote: post #3

I've been reading various comments about this around the internet and many people are saying they will stop ordering from Amazon because of it. These white collar workers are highly paid, and not forced to be there. Most of them could easily find another job someplace else (and it sounds like many do). I just can't feel bad for them. If you don't want to work throughout your vacation, go find another job that won't m…

Workers, white-collar or not, are seldom sold a job with full information: working through vacation isn't the kind of thing mentioned in job postings.

I don't think anyone should be forced to work through their vacation: that's why it is called vacation. If you don't want people to take vacation then don't offer it, but offering vacation "in name only" is the worst of all possible worlds.

I want to live in a world where companies treat their workers well and therefore I don't want to patronize companies that willfully and systemically dehumanize them.

Re: Jeff Bezos Says Amazon Won’t Tolerate ‘Callous’ Management Practices

#39

Post by Pxtl »

rdtsc wrote: post #4

> But if you know of any stories like those reported, I want you to escalate to HR. You can also email me directly at jeff@amazon.com. Even if it’s rare or isolated, our tolerance for any such lack of empathy needs to be zero. I say don't escalate to HR but leave to work at another place. HR is not your advocate, it is not there to help you. You are just a "resource" just like it says in the name. There have been man…

http://dilbert.com/strip/2011-02-20

Re: Jeff Bezos Says Amazon Won’t Tolerate ‘Callous’ Management Practices

#40

Post by fweespeech »

rdtsc wrote: post #4

> But if you know of any stories like those reported, I want you to escalate to HR. You can also email me directly at jeff@amazon.com. Even if it’s rare or isolated, our tolerance for any such lack of empathy needs to be zero. I say don't escalate to HR but leave to work at another place. HR is not your advocate, it is not there to help you. You are just a "resource" just like it says in the name. There have been man…

Yeah, the moment he said that, everyone with a brain realized he was being disingenuous.

He would need to make public clear, explicit instructions stating HR would take a zero tolerance for a lack of empathy and that confidentiality would be guaranteed as well as providing a copy of a memo to the entire HR department to that effect.

A single line in a PR puff piece isn't a shield you can rely on.

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