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Deutsche Telekom is throttling the internet

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Re: Deutsche Telekom is throttling the internet

#171

Post by DannyBee »

retired wrote: post #68
nandomrumber wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You’d need to be able to replicate whatever configuration the ISP provided device has, and they won’t give you that. FTTH here in Australia is the same, you’re stuck using the network providers device, which just provides an Ethernet port, and a POTS port if you’re in to that sort of thing, with your LAN device connected behind it. There was fierce lobbying back in the day (shout out to Simon Hackett / Internode) for…

Thanks. I have an ISP provided media converter with my own router behind that, using the correct VLAN was enough to get it working. I thought those media converters were pretty dumb devices but it seems they are not.

They are not dumb but are very standardized. Unless they are issuing and verifying device certs you can almost certainly use your own PON equipment with very little effort.

If they are using certs youd have to extract it. The vast majority of ISPs don't bother or care.

Re: Deutsche Telekom is throttling the internet

#172

Post by bayindirh »

Cockbrand wrote: post #154
0xcb0 wrote: post #86

Telekom is a bunch of strange folks. I lately was not able to send mails, from my private mail servrr to my fathers telekom mail. After investigation I found out my server got blocked. After a decade of working. I mailed them, and they told me to register my mailserver with them. I shall tell them what mails I will send from there and about what content. I couldn’t believe my eyes. Sure, thats how mail was supposed t…

Been there, done that. After a bit of back and forth, Telekom basically recommended that I go and use one of the big SMTP servers and stop bothering them. While I hated myself for doing it, I eventually switched to Gmail for peace of mind.

This is one of the reasons why I'm not planning to host my own e-mail server. It's not that I can't do it, but I don't want to sink time into investigating and working around/solving things like that.

Re: Deutsche Telekom is throttling the internet

#173

Post by DannyBee »

Namidairo wrote: post #63
retired wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is it possible to use a media converter from glass fiber to RJ45/Ethernet? Those are commonly available and then you can use whatever modem/router you like.

If I recall, for something like GPON or XGS-PON, you end up having to clone the various attributes of the original for it to work properly. This typically includes serial number, hardware id, firmware identifiers, etc.

For most it is just serial number. The 8311 folks have scripts that will fully automate the cloning for most common devices. This is not like a "break open your hardware and attach wires" type thing.

There are some ISPs issuing and verifying certs for GPON, which are more annoying to extract. I'm not aware of anyone (even those same ISPs) doing it for XGS-PON. It seems they all decided maintainimg their own CA infrastructure for millions of customers was not worth it ;)

Re: Deutsche Telekom is throttling the internet

#174

Post by tsss »

sgjohnson wrote: post #139
jesprenj wrote: post #137

Slovenian ISP T-2.net also violates local network neutrality laws here by requiring customers to pay extra to unblock some special TCP ports, like 25 and 53, meaning they block selfhosting email and dns servers without additional payment. I filed a complaint to the national regulator AKOS. They first responded with agreeing with me, but nothing was fixed for many months, and upon emailing the regulator again, I recei…

Blocking port 25 is perfectly reasonable. There are no sane and legitimate reasons for running an SMTP server on a residential connection. Even most server providers will block it unless you give them some very good reasons. Blocking 53 is just weird though.

Whether or not I have a sane reason to use port 25 is none of their business.

Re: Deutsche Telekom is throttling the internet

#175

Post by direwolf20 »

sgjohnson wrote: post #133
direwolf20 wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

WhatsApp has been required to provide an open API, Apple has been required to provide alternative app stores. Neither one has actually done it because the EU is too pussy to enforce the law, but the legislators clearly had no huge principle disagreement when writing these laws. Mobile networks have been forced to allow roaming in other countries for a certain low fee, and that is actually enforced and has happened. I…

The difference between WhatsApp open API, alternative App Stores and forcing peering is that it costs virtually nothing for WhatsApp to provide an open API, and for Apple to allow alternative App Stores. Roam-like-at-home is also not a particularly good comparison here, because the the roaming fees were basically a price gouging scheme. Don't like DTAG? You're free to switch to another ISP.

It costs DTAG virtually nothing to have good peering, certainly compared to their income. It costs Apple a very high percentage of their revenue to allow alternative app stores, since their main revenue source is the 30% tax on all in-app purchases through the Apple store.

Re: Deutsche Telekom is throttling the internet

#176

Post by direwolf20 »

yayachiken wrote: post #141
direwolf20 wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's no such thing as paid peering, is there? There's only being a customer. DT wants you to buy transit to get access to their customers.

Peering just means that two AS physically connect to each other directly. Whether this peering is paid or not is independent from the technical implementation. Just nearly everybody except Telekom is doing this on a liberal and informal not-even-handshake basis. On ISP scale, you either invest in infrastructure, or pay rent for network ports or cross-links, and you generally want your traffic usage to be smooth witho…

> peering just means that ...

This also describes transit and describes getting internet service at home. I wouldn't say my cellphone peers with my provider. My cellphone is very much subordinate to my provider, not a peer.

DT thinks it's important enough that it can extort everyone.

A good policy for ISPs is to peer as many places and networks as possible, and carry traffic between your peers and customers, and customers and customers, and transit and customers, but not between peers and peers, or peers and transit. This way one end is paying for all traffic you carry. If you are a bully, you can try to make both ends pay.

Re: Deutsche Telekom is throttling the internet

#177

Post by xioxox »

the8472 wrote: post #161
lwde wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just switch to 1und1 with good peering (:

Do 1&1 customers get CGNAT or a native v4 address? I have had issues with the AFTR's port mapping tables running full when I was on Unitymedia coax.

I get proper IPV4 and IPV6 addresses with Easybell on VDSL. I've been with them a long time and they've been pretty good.

Re: Deutsche Telekom is throttling the internet

#178

Post by hirako2000 »

vjerancrnjak wrote: post #100
0xcb0 wrote: post #86

Telekom is a bunch of strange folks. I lately was not able to send mails, from my private mail servrr to my fathers telekom mail. After investigation I found out my server got blocked. After a decade of working. I mailed them, and they told me to register my mailserver with them. I shall tell them what mails I will send from there and about what content. I couldn’t believe my eyes. Sure, thats how mail was supposed t…

I think this is standard. It applies to domains as well. I experienced government services blocks as well -- they send me an email, yet block my reply. I complain every time and rarely does anyone care, the support person does not escalate, so my email remains blocked, sometimes I'm told system is working as configured, completely ignoring that I am a real person and system is hostile towards me. It's just general fr…

We call it the email mafia.

To send emails we need to pay for a mail service. Or get ads of course Gmail is part of the ring.

Like most things it start with good intentions, to fight spam. As if it even worked, I guess we would get far more without they will say.

Re: Deutsche Telekom is throttling the internet

#179

Post by 7bit »

Avamander wrote: post #98
0xcb0 wrote: post #86

Telekom is a bunch of strange folks. I lately was not able to send mails, from my private mail servrr to my fathers telekom mail. After investigation I found out my server got blocked. After a decade of working. I mailed them, and they told me to register my mailserver with them. I shall tell them what mails I will send from there and about what content. I couldn’t believe my eyes. Sure, thats how mail was supposed t…

That policy of theirs has existed for a long time now. It's a really odd one at that. They also don't enforce DMARC, nor do DKIM. It's stuck nearly four decades in the past.

That's Germany in a nutshell.

Re: Deutsche Telekom is throttling the internet

#180

Post by direwolf20 »

kebman wrote: post #152
embedding-shape wrote: post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You don't want a tier 1 carrier as your ISP The best part about ISPs, is that usually who have very few choices, sometimes only one! Where I grew up, we had the choice of "broadband" (via antennas between an island and mainland) with one ISP, or modem with any telephone company. Eventually, proper cables where put, and we had a choice between 6 different operators. Where I live now, I only have 3 options for ISPs w…

ISP “choice” is mostly a meme, yeah. But depending on local rules, you can sometimes route around the monopoly: trench your own last-mile (at least on private land), do a neighborhood co-op, connect buildings, etc. It’s sometimes expensive and you’ll hit permits/right-of-way bureaucracy, but it’s totally doable if you’ve got a few (rich) friends or a business willing to back it. “the conduit is full” is often just BS…

I think Germany has something equivalent to local loop unbundling, but obviously, DT still provides shitty loops because they are shitty at all aspects of their business.
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