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Is Health Insurance Even Worth It Anymore?

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Re: Is Health Insurance Even Worth It Anymore?

#171

Post by actionfromafar »

rayiner wrote: post #170
actionfromafar wrote: post #157

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not like someone would forbid Warren Buffet from doing so. The government already set up a system that is all but in name compulsory. So, let's take a pile of the same size as the current system uses, but let it go through a single arbiter, with combined purchase power.

We have a system like that for student loans—where the federal government itself originates and owns 90% of student debt—and it has led to massive cost inflation. What makes you think we’d implement a healthcare system better?

Yeah, maybe it's a lost cause. America is kinda special.

Re: Is Health Insurance Even Worth It Anymore?

#172

Post by lotsofpulp »

_DeadFred_ wrote: post #166
lotsofpulp wrote: post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

First of all, some or much of your premium is a wealth transfer (from young and healthy to old and sick). So consider that portion a tax (it literally is, just not collected by the government directly): https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45800973 https://www.cms.gov/marketplace/private-health-insurance/mar... https://www.healthcare.gov/how-plans-set-your-premiums/ >what exactly did they contribute to the transactio…

Great. So this system provides guaranteed healthcare at the worst possible point, the emergency room, AND funnels these 'wealth transfer taxes' of yours through for profit corporations? Sounds like a really bad way to be doing this. Crazy also that we have a government insurance/payment program on top of this for old and sick people. So why have a government program and an additional private wealth transfer tax? I ha…

> I have never met a normie whose insurance covers more than 1 million in yearly benefits. So no, they aren't covering millions of dollar claims.

Legally, an ACA compliant plan has to cover healthcare expenses more than the out of pocket maximum. “Benefit maximums” are not allowed under the ACA.

https://www.healthcare.gov/health-care-law-protections/lifet...

> Lifetime limits

>Insurance companies can’t set a dollar limit on what they spend on essential health benefits for your care during the entire time you’re enrolled in that plan. Yearly limits

>Insurance companies can’t set a yearly dollar limit on what they spend for your coverage.

Here is a famous example of a single healthcare recipient causing an insurer to stop selling insurance in a state:

https://www.desmoinesregister.com/story/news/health/2017/05/...

Re: Is Health Insurance Even Worth It Anymore?

#173

Post by BobaFloutist »

_DeadFred_ wrote: post #165
BobaFloutist wrote: post #152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not about wait times, it's about excessive scanning and endless, marginal-benefit end of life care

The people who opposed socialized medicine by fear-mongering about “death panels” can’t now complain that their preferred system provides limitless, marginal benefit end of life care. That’s the trade off THEY argued for and said THEIR system could do.

What about the people living in the same country who didn't oppose socialized medicine or fear monger about death panels? Can they complain that their non-preferred system sucks every bit as much as they always knew it would, and advocate for improving it, or are they forever bound to suffer karmic justice for what other people did over a decade ago?

Re: Is Health Insurance Even Worth It Anymore?

#174

Post by metadat »

OptionOfT wrote: post #17
infecto wrote: post #12

It is worth it imo but it could be better. This is my back of napkin mental model but I have convinced myself that most of our troubles are because health insurance morphed from truly emergencies to every day care. Routine care (both primary and specialist) have to hire deep staff to handle insurance claims with the different payers. It’s a constant game. For myself I always pick the high deductible plan. It’s the ne…

I'm on the other side. A high deductible plan for me means I'm guaranteed to have to pay that amount, due to medication and visits. If I take the low deductible plan with the higher Max OOP I am actually spending less on a yearly basis because the insurance kicks in immediately. Of course, when something catastropic happens, like cancer, yea, the high-deductible plan would've been better, but that (knocks on wood) do…

It's like a poker game, except it's your real life. Welcome to.. America?

Not sure what to call it at this point. We're all meat for the grinder. Unless you're a billionaire.

Re: Is Health Insurance Even Worth It Anymore?

#175

Post by metadat »

fabiofzero wrote: post #32

Looking from outside your system is scary. I don't get how anyone could defend it in earnest.

Even kids who grew up wealthy and attended Harvard might go on to murder a health care executive. This article sums it up pretty cleanly IMHO, the health care system in America is infuriatingly unfair. Is the goal to help people or just extract extract extract until they are dead?

https://news.northeastern.edu/2024/12/10/luigi-mangione-unit...

Re: Is Health Insurance Even Worth It Anymore?

#176

Post by cindyllm »

BobaFloutist wrote: post #173
_DeadFred_ wrote: post #165

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The people who opposed socialized medicine by fear-mongering about “death panels” can’t now complain that their preferred system provides limitless, marginal benefit end of life care. That’s the trade off THEY argued for and said THEIR system could do.

What about the people living in the same country who didn't oppose socialized medicine or fear monger about death panels? Can they complain that their non-preferred system sucks every bit as much as they always knew it would, and advocate for improving it, or are they forever bound to suffer karmic justice for what other people did over a decade ago?

[dead]

Re: Is Health Insurance Even Worth It Anymore?

#177

Post by joquarky »

notfried wrote: post #9

The article mentions early a "cancer diagnosis" but puts that aside and moves on, when this is pretty much the crux of the issue. Prostate and Breast cancers are a 1 in 8 chance. The risk of no insurance at 25 is very different than 50, and than 75. And everyone at all ages is paying for those expensive treatments. The system is broken, but going without insurance is you basically toying with the odds of life.

Good thing I became a Taoist before I could no longer afford insurance.

Re: Is Health Insurance Even Worth It Anymore?

#178

Post by insane_dreamer »

> I know I’d rather pay for a Direct Primary Care membership, have catastrophic insurance that covers medical spending above a certain dollar value, and contribute to an HSA every year in the meantime while I’m healthy.

"Bronze" level insurance is essentially catastrophic insurance. The deductible is so high that you're paying out of pocket for regular care. So the author's desirable scenario already exists. The problem is that even these catastrophic plans cost a significant amount. So much so that it's not really worth it. If you do go to the doctor often you're better off with a higher level of insurance where your premium at least also covers some of your routine care.

So it's not that the structure doesn't exist, it's that it's too expensive.

Re: Is Health Insurance Even Worth It Anymore?

#179

Post by sharts »

The problem with insurance is that we don't use it as insurance and just as an account to charge everything to when really we should just be paying for health care.

You wouldn't charge your car insurance for gas. Yet that is the majority of what we do for healthcare.

Re: Is Health Insurance Even Worth It Anymore?

#180

Post by insane_dreamer »

whatever1 wrote: post #40
Brendinooo wrote: post #14

I just looked at the local marketplace plans. The absolute dirt-cheapest I could do for my family is ~$1,225/month premium with a deductible of $13,400 and out-of-pocket max of $21,200. Most of the structure is some form of "zero help until the deductible, then I pay 20%-40% of everything up until the OOP max". In other words, I'm being asked to buy a product, and the cheapest form of it is to basically pay almost $1…

So you have to pay like $30k out of pocket in a year before the insurance chips in a single dollar? And if you ever ask for a dollar, I can also reject your coverage. How can I start an insurance company?

No, $13.4K before the insurance company starts chipping in. Also that would be total deductible for the family; there's a lower deductible per individual. (I.e., the deductible might be $2.5K per individual, and $6K for the family.) So if one person needs more medical care, the insurance company kicks in once you've paid $2.5K (or whatever amount) for that person's care.
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