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Is Health Insurance Even Worth It Anymore?

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Re: Is Health Insurance Even Worth It Anymore?

#151

Post by danielmarkbruce »

nozzlegear wrote: post #132
rayiner wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> but there will always be a desire to save people's lives even if the cost is very high. Also, Americans place extraordinarily high value on life. My wife's grandmother had cancer in her 60s and had a quarter of her lung removed. She then had a stroke in her late 80s. She was in rural Oregon, and they evacuated her via helicopter to Portland. They wanted to give her an aggressive treatment, but she refused, and pass…

> My parents were upper middle class, but there's no way they paid enough into Medicare to cover the amount of medical care they've used just since retiring (last 5 years or so). It's a common misconception that the money we all pay into Medicare is going into a generational savings account, so we all need to "pull our weight" to make sure there's enough in there by the time we start withdrawing from it. Medicare is…

I don't think the post was about guilt. It was about math.

Re: Is Health Insurance Even Worth It Anymore?

#152

Post by BobaFloutist »

JohnFen wrote: post #136
rayiner wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just talk to people in the healthcare industry about what kind of patients they have. We cover a tremendous amount of treatments in the U.S., at an arguably unsustainable level of service. My aunt had a kidney infection in Canada and my cousin had to pull teeth to get her scheduled for an MRI. My five year old got a black eye from running into a table and they scheduled him for an X-ray and CAT scan (“just in case “)…

Here in the US, I see wait times for medical care comparable from what I hear from my Canadian friends. I don't think we our system can really tout that as an advantage over theirs.

It's not about wait times, it's about excessive scanning and endless, marginal-benefit end of life care

Re: Is Health Insurance Even Worth It Anymore?

#153

Post by rayiner »

JohnFen wrote: post #136
rayiner wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just talk to people in the healthcare industry about what kind of patients they have. We cover a tremendous amount of treatments in the U.S., at an arguably unsustainable level of service. My aunt had a kidney infection in Canada and my cousin had to pull teeth to get her scheduled for an MRI. My five year old got a black eye from running into a table and they scheduled him for an X-ray and CAT scan (“just in case “)…

Here in the US, I see wait times for medical care comparable from what I hear from my Canadian friends. I don't think we our system can really tout that as an advantage over theirs.

Where are you located? E.g. the average wait times for CT scans and MRIs in Canada is weeks: https://canjhealthtechnol.ca/index.php/cjht/article/download.... UK NHS is 6-18 weeks. Here in suburban Maryland I’ve never had to wait more than a day or two for anything.

Re: Is Health Insurance Even Worth It Anymore?

#154

Post by actionfromafar »

rayiner wrote: post #126
actionfromafar wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

+1 The whole system is setup to maximise the "care" whenever possible. IMHO it would be better with a universal healthcare that asked itself some tough questions. Start from a pile of money and calculate maximum impact backwards from there. But maybe that's impossible for the US. (It's satanic and/or communist or something.)

I like universal healthcare in principle, but I don't think the funding mechanism is the problem. We see the same cost inflation in the U.S. in sectors that everyone agrees should be publicly funded, like community colleges or transit. U.S. public spending on tertiary education is about 0.95% of GDP, which is higher than the U.K. (0.5%), Ireland (0.57%), Italy (0.62%), Australia (0.68%), and not that much lower than…

It's not the funding mechanism exactly, that matters I think. But that there's no single entity which looks at the whole pot of money and allocates according to best health for the population.

Re: Is Health Insurance Even Worth It Anymore?

#155

Post by danielmarkbruce »

actionfromafar wrote: post #116
rayiner wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> but there will always be a desire to save people's lives even if the cost is very high. Also, Americans place extraordinarily high value on life. My wife's grandmother had cancer in her 60s and had a quarter of her lung removed. She then had a stroke in her late 80s. She was in rural Oregon, and they evacuated her via helicopter to Portland. They wanted to give her an aggressive treatment, but she refused, and pass…

+1 The whole system is setup to maximise the "care" whenever possible. IMHO it would be better with a universal healthcare that asked itself some tough questions. Start from a pile of money and calculate maximum impact backwards from there. But maybe that's impossible for the US. (It's satanic and/or communist or something.)

It's communist is the problem. Whose pile of money? If old Warren Buffett wants to spend a billion to extend his life by a year, who am I to stop him?

Re: Is Health Insurance Even Worth It Anymore?

#156

Post by danielmarkbruce »

actionfromafar wrote: post #154
rayiner wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I like universal healthcare in principle, but I don't think the funding mechanism is the problem. We see the same cost inflation in the U.S. in sectors that everyone agrees should be publicly funded, like community colleges or transit. U.S. public spending on tertiary education is about 0.95% of GDP, which is higher than the U.K. (0.5%), Ireland (0.57%), Italy (0.62%), Australia (0.68%), and not that much lower than…

It's not the funding mechanism exactly, that matters I think. But that there's no single entity which looks at the whole pot of money and allocates according to best health for the population.

The idea that some entity will make a good decision is almost certainly wrong.

Re: Is Health Insurance Even Worth It Anymore?

#157

Post by actionfromafar »

danielmarkbruce wrote: post #155
actionfromafar wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

+1 The whole system is setup to maximise the "care" whenever possible. IMHO it would be better with a universal healthcare that asked itself some tough questions. Start from a pile of money and calculate maximum impact backwards from there. But maybe that's impossible for the US. (It's satanic and/or communist or something.)

It's communist is the problem. Whose pile of money? If old Warren Buffett wants to spend a billion to extend his life by a year, who am I to stop him?

It's not like someone would forbid Warren Buffet from doing so. The government already set up a system that is all but in name compulsory. So, let's take a pile of the same size as the current system uses, but let it go through a single arbiter, with combined purchase power.

Re: Is Health Insurance Even Worth It Anymore?

#158

Post by thehoff »

rayiner wrote: post #153
JohnFen wrote: post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Here in the US, I see wait times for medical care comparable from what I hear from my Canadian friends. I don't think we our system can really tout that as an advantage over theirs.

Where are you located? E.g. the average wait times for CT scans and MRIs in Canada is weeks: https://canjhealthtechnol.ca/index.php/cjht/article/download... . UK NHS is 6-18 weeks. Here in suburban Maryland I’ve never had to wait more than a day or two for anything.

I’ve never had anything that available (outside of urgent care which imo is not very good). None of this had an immediate need.

MRI a few years ago had a month and a half wait (not urgent but recommended).

Pediatrician? At least 3 months and thats IF they take new patients.

Allergist, 6 month waiting list.

My last PCP I had to book out 2 months in advance (the practice I wanted to go to was booked 6 months out).

We are also suburbs of a big city.

Re: Is Health Insurance Even Worth It Anymore?

#159

Post by danielmarkbruce »

actionfromafar wrote: post #157
danielmarkbruce wrote: post #155

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's communist is the problem. Whose pile of money? If old Warren Buffett wants to spend a billion to extend his life by a year, who am I to stop him?

It's not like someone would forbid Warren Buffet from doing so. The government already set up a system that is all but in name compulsory. So, let's take a pile of the same size as the current system uses, but let it go through a single arbiter, with combined purchase power.

In some sense we have that - what is covered by medicare and the insurance companies is covered for the relevant people in those schemes.

Re: Is Health Insurance Even Worth It Anymore?

#160

Post by actionfromafar »

danielmarkbruce wrote: post #156
actionfromafar wrote: post #154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not the funding mechanism exactly, that matters I think. But that there's no single entity which looks at the whole pot of money and allocates according to best health for the population.

The idea that some entity will make a good decision is almost certainly wrong.

The idea that such a system will at least be less horrible has legs though. Gestures in the general direction of Europe
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