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Is Health Insurance Even Worth It Anymore?

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Re: Is Health Insurance Even Worth It Anymore?

#161

Post by lisbbb »

enraged_camel wrote: post #18
exabrial wrote: post #2

Repeal Obamacare, go back to HSAs. Nobody should be taxed on health expenses, which was the whole point of HSAs in the first place. We literally had a budding system that was working and affordable, and it was "fixed".

It was “working” if you didn’t have a pre-existing condition, which could literally be anything the insurance company wanted it to be.

Yes--the only thing ACA did right was force insurers to take on people with pre-existing conditions. All the other crap could be done away with and we would all be better off. I think we should do away with publicly traded healthcare companies like UNH, too. It's a huge conflict of interest to have billionaires involved.

Re: Is Health Insurance Even Worth It Anymore?

#162

Post by vkou »

xboxnolifes wrote: post #117
fabiofzero wrote: post #32

Looking from outside your system is scary. I don't get how anyone could defend it in earnest.

What I think you will find is usually defended is not the healthcare system itself, but the idea of not "paying for the bad decisions of others".

It would be great if we didn't all have to pay for the bad decisions of the people who hold to those opinions.

Re: Is Health Insurance Even Worth It Anymore?

#163

Post by array_key_first »

steveBK123 wrote: post #89
rayiner wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That seems... fine? That's $14,000 annually. For an income in the $75k-$100k range, Maryland health connection shows me a premium of $700/month for two parents/two kids. Judging by your premium and assuming 2 adults/2 kids, your income is probably over $200k. With that income in Canada, you'd be paying over $20,000 in taxes attributable to healthcare: https://www.fraserinstitute.org/sites/default/files/price-of... .…

Right I think a lot of upper income Americans don't understand how it compares globally. Seeing what my UK colleagues deal with, a $200K income would land you solidly in the 40% marginal tax bracket over there, vs (if married) .. 22% here. US federal effective tax rate (before getting into deductions) would be like 17% on that 200k, for a $166k take home.. versus equivalent UK take-home would be as low as $123k (agai…

That's not the actual tax burden in the US, though. Because we also have sales tax, property tax, state income tax, and various required fees.

Re: Is Health Insurance Even Worth It Anymore?

#164

Post by [deleted] »

toast0 wrote: post #139
oliwarner wrote: post #123

A question to everyone unhappy paying for their insurance: would you be happier paying 50% income tax, 20% sales tax and not having to ever worry about paying for healthcare?

California residents with high income are already paying 50% income tax; if you include social security and medicare tax, it's even more. 20% sales tax is high, but if you're buying imported things that are being tariffed at high rates and then paying sales tax on that it's about there. IMHO, if you look at European tax rates vs benefits, and US tax rates vs benefits; US taxes simply aren't efficient, our rates are a…

[deleted]

Re: Is Health Insurance Even Worth It Anymore?

#165

Post by _DeadFred_ »

BobaFloutist wrote: post #152
JohnFen wrote: post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Here in the US, I see wait times for medical care comparable from what I hear from my Canadian friends. I don't think we our system can really tout that as an advantage over theirs.

It's not about wait times, it's about excessive scanning and endless, marginal-benefit end of life care

The people who opposed socialized medicine by fear-mongering about “death panels” can’t now complain that their preferred system provides limitless, marginal benefit end of life care. That’s the trade off THEY argued for and said THEIR system could do.

Re: Is Health Insurance Even Worth It Anymore?

#166

Post by _DeadFred_ »

lotsofpulp wrote: post #142
nullocator wrote: post #141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Uh huh, and for them to have inserted themselves between me and my doctor, what exactly did they contribute to the transaction and how much should I want to pay for such a privilege since apparently $30k a year isn't enough? A measly 2-3% for adding no value and creating friction, egregious, we must get the profits higher!

First of all, some or much of your premium is a wealth transfer (from young and healthy to old and sick). So consider that portion a tax (it literally is, just not collected by the government directly): https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45800973 https://www.cms.gov/marketplace/private-health-insurance/mar... https://www.healthcare.gov/how-plans-set-your-premiums/ >what exactly did they contribute to the transactio…

Great. So this system provides guaranteed healthcare at the worst possible point, the emergency room, AND funnels these 'wealth transfer taxes' of yours through for profit corporations? Sounds like a really bad way to be doing this. Crazy also that we have a government insurance/payment program on top of this for old and sick people. So why have a government program and an additional private wealth transfer tax?

I have never met a normie whose insurance covers more than 1 million in yearly benefits. So no, they aren't covering millions of dollar claims.

Re: Is Health Insurance Even Worth It Anymore?

#167

Post by _DeadFred_ »

rayiner wrote: post #88
danielmarkbruce wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The actual cost to treat "cancer or whatever" is extremely high in many cases. 15k a year to know you have that covered for a family isn't so bad given the true underlying cost. A family member has a rare disease and I've gone through the details of the various treatments, how many people are involved in ongoing care and treatment etc. It's a lot of very well trained people spending a lot of time. A concrete treatmen…

> but there will always be a desire to save people's lives even if the cost is very high. Also, Americans place extraordinarily high value on life. My wife's grandmother had cancer in her 60s and had a quarter of her lung removed. She then had a stroke in her late 80s. She was in rural Oregon, and they evacuated her via helicopter to Portland. They wanted to give her an aggressive treatment, but she refused, and pass…

We were SPECIFICALLY told this system could do this, that unlike socialized healthcare, it doesn't have 'death panels' (I believe the term the politicians used).

Re: Is Health Insurance Even Worth It Anymore?

#168

Post by rayiner »

actionfromafar wrote: post #154
rayiner wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I like universal healthcare in principle, but I don't think the funding mechanism is the problem. We see the same cost inflation in the U.S. in sectors that everyone agrees should be publicly funded, like community colleges or transit. U.S. public spending on tertiary education is about 0.95% of GDP, which is higher than the U.K. (0.5%), Ireland (0.57%), Italy (0.62%), Australia (0.68%), and not that much lower than…

It's not the funding mechanism exactly, that matters I think. But that there's no single entity which looks at the whole pot of money and allocates according to best health for the population.

Even single payer systems don’t have that. Conversely, the U.S. has huge cost inflation in education and transit as well, and those are centralized.

Re: Is Health Insurance Even Worth It Anymore?

#169

Post by ponector »

thehoff wrote: post #104
garciasn wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I pay around $1100 a month for me and my two children through my employer. Yes; I have a $25 copay for many services, but most are simply not covered under that $25 copay. They refused an age-appropriate colonoscopy last year. It's basically fucking useless and expensive. So; is it worth it anymore? No. Is it necessary? Yes; unfortunately.

I just took a look at our annual medical contributions and employer's part. We pay just over 10k for health insurance through our (different) companies. Our different employers cover almost 28k. So around 38k for insurance. This doesn't even include dental or vision which is separate. It just seems so crazy how much we pay and still have deductibles. I understand we have small copays and get items covered like age-re…

I pay 8% from my salary for mandatory government health "insurance" which is basically a tax as there are enormous waiting queues for something serious.

Re: Is Health Insurance Even Worth It Anymore?

#170

Post by rayiner »

actionfromafar wrote: post #157
danielmarkbruce wrote: post #155

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's communist is the problem. Whose pile of money? If old Warren Buffett wants to spend a billion to extend his life by a year, who am I to stop him?

It's not like someone would forbid Warren Buffet from doing so. The government already set up a system that is all but in name compulsory. So, let's take a pile of the same size as the current system uses, but let it go through a single arbiter, with combined purchase power.

We have a system like that for student loans—where the federal government itself originates and owns 90% of student debt—and it has led to massive cost inflation. What makes you think we’d implement a healthcare system better?
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