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Vanishing from Hyundai’s data network

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Re: Vanishing from Hyundai’s data network

#171

Post by bayindirh »

Loudergood wrote: post #169
bayindirh wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> etc. That "etc." hides "moving the heaviest, most flammable and non-extinguishable part of the drivetrain into a primary crumple zone in front of you" pretty neatly. :D

On the opposite side of something that's long been called a "Firewall" for a reason.

However, lithium fires burn hotter and can't be contained as easily. So, that firewall may need an update, too.

Plus, as I noted in the weight part, an engine in a compartment is designed to detach and slide down to protect the cell. Can every retrofitter guarantee the same thing for their battery packs?

Re: Vanishing from Hyundai’s data network

#172

Post by ezarowny »

farmdve wrote: post #64
justforfunhere wrote: post #21

I know of some modern vehicles that will not start at all if you go about removing the telematics unit. I am not sure how long will it take before you will not be able to buy a vehicle at all without having to consent to being monitored remotely 24x7, but it will happen sooner than later. And this coming from a developing country. Pretty sure it is much worse in the developed world. I guess the market for second hand…

I am actually fascinated by car electronics. I had heavily modified the software on mine, but it was easier than modern stuff, no encryption of the code, and even the checksum code only triggered a DTC with no consequences. The only module that was encrypted was the main module, but it if you knew the security PIN you could do what you wanted. It was determined by people that if you observed the jitter of the CAN lin…

Mazda? Their entire infotainment is just HTML and JavaScript which was quite a shock to discover.

Re: Vanishing from Hyundai’s data network

#173

Post by aprilthird2021 »

Version467 wrote: post #165
AlexandrB wrote: post #164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The why is pretty simple: they want recurring revenue. What the customer wants is secondary.

And insisting on building their own mediocre ui helps them achieve that how exactly? Maybe I'm just super out of touch on how people use their cars, but my cars infotainment system has not made its manufacturer any additional money as far as I can tell.

Once you have the data the money can be figured out later.

You can figure out how people use the car and what features matter to them and upsell or upcharge for those features in the next line.

You can cross-advertise (oh you listen to music when driving here's Spotify deal through us and behind-the-scenes we get a cut for lead generation to Spotify).

You can use the information to defend in lawsuits. Oh our car is faulty leading to accidents? But all these people were fiddling with the unit before crashing.

Also if you control the platform you can sell integration spots to companies. I know my old BMW had a specific separate path to connect Spotify on your phone to car, no other audio app.

There's surely other ways I haven't thought of. The investment pays off later IF you get the data, but CarPlay and Android Auto have really mucked that gambit up for the car makers

Re: Vanishing from Hyundai’s data network

#174

Post by ethbr1 »

ryandrake wrote: post #163
bradley13 wrote: post #91

I would like to see some legal and regulatory steps. When we purchased our Ioniq, there was no agreement for data sharing, etc. - we have basically a cash register receipt, nothing more. Whenever there is a major update, an insanely long T&A appears on the screen. No one is going to read it. The only options are "accept" or clicking it away. If you click it away, it comes back the next day. It cannot possibly be lega…

We need judges to start growing a backbone and declaring these one-sided "agreements" unconscionable. The company has outsized power over the purchaser, the terms tend to be one-sided, and there is no meaningful choice to the purchaser. These things should be clear cut cases of unconscionability, and judges should be throwing them out left and right and penalizing the companies who try to push them.

Absent something like a component of the GDPR, I'd highly doubt the judiciary in any country is going to originate a major civil right.

The correct place ELA / T&A consent should be defined is in something like the GDPR -- along with strict requirements as to what standard of consumer free choice is required for it to be enforceable.

Re: Vanishing from Hyundai’s data network

#175

Post by msgodel »

ryandrake wrote: post #163
bradley13 wrote: post #91

I would like to see some legal and regulatory steps. When we purchased our Ioniq, there was no agreement for data sharing, etc. - we have basically a cash register receipt, nothing more. Whenever there is a major update, an insanely long T&A appears on the screen. No one is going to read it. The only options are "accept" or clicking it away. If you click it away, it comes back the next day. It cannot possibly be lega…

We need judges to start growing a backbone and declaring these one-sided "agreements" unconscionable. The company has outsized power over the purchaser, the terms tend to be one-sided, and there is no meaningful choice to the purchaser. These things should be clear cut cases of unconscionability, and judges should be throwing them out left and right and penalizing the companies who try to push them.

It's arguably a violation of the CFAA.

Re: Vanishing from Hyundai’s data network

#176

Post by galangalalgol »

spdustin wrote: post #167
zevon wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a bit of a two-edged sword. I kind of doubt that Carplay and Android Auto will keep working with new phones as long as a car can. At which point you will end up with an old smartphone in your car or some workaround like that.

CarPlay is essentially a conditional pair of video inputs. Any system that supports on-screen rear-view camera and that has a wheel speed sensor can support CarPlay.

Is wheel sppeed really the only car sensor exposed to the app? That is kind of sad.

Re: Vanishing from Hyundai’s data network

#177

Post by jacquesm »

pabs3 wrote: post #30
zdw wrote: post #2

I'm fearing the day when my quite old ICE car dies and I end up in a situation where the best option is a newer car that is a computer on wheels running software that I know will stop getting updates very quickly. Of all the new cars ideas I've seen recently, only the Slate mini-truck seems to be taking a minimalist approach, with no fancy head unit or navigation system.

Another option is converting an ICE car to EV: https://openinverter.org/wiki/ZombieVerter_VCU https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43898280 https://youtube.com/@evbmw

Electric Citroen DS, finally the Gattaca dream come true.

They've done it, actually:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xyyHqhAeuF4

Re: Vanishing from Hyundai’s data network

#178

Post by mihaaly »

Proucts are made for the needs of the manufacturers nowadays (using borderline criminal practices like enforced mass surveillance), not for the needs of the paying customers. And apparently the cutomers are ok with it, most of the time, otherwise this practice was already dead.

How did we come to this?

Re: Vanishing from Hyundai’s data network

#179

Post by MobileVet »

zevon wrote: post #87
Terr_ wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm hopeful that stuff like Android Auto or Apple CarPlay will continue moving some of the risky obsolete-able complexity away of the giant expensive machine I plan to keep for over a decade (the car) and into smaller easier-to-replace ones (my smartphone.) A quick outline for those who haven't used them: The car's head-display becomes mostly-controlled by your phone, which is what supplies any navigation, music, pod…

This is a bit of a two-edged sword. I kind of doubt that Carplay and Android Auto will keep working with new phones as long as a car can. At which point you will end up with an old smartphone in your car or some workaround like that.

This isn’t something I have actively thought about… but now that you bring it up, I am definitely concerned. If the APIs were deprecated, CarPlay would be useless as the auto manufacturers would not update their head unit.

The thread about an F150 with a known Bluetooth issue is a great example. Number one vehicle sold in the US for a LONG time, and yet no incentive to keep it working apparently

Re: Vanishing from Hyundai’s data network

#180

Post by burnt_toast »

calvinmorrison wrote: post #135
layoric wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Software updates and data collection. Eg, my mums Toyota Corolla 2018 already has a disabled infotainment button because of dropped support. If it was a 2019 it would have been eligible for an update, but not for 2018. Lots of cars from the same period are collecting and sharing data to various different companies from weather to insurance. Personally I don’t want monitoring or software updates, and definitely don’t…

Lots of cars from the 90s and 2000s have obsolete tech that doesn't work like certain vintages of car phones

Car phones weren't common place and were typically only available in some higher end luxury cars. I wouldn't exactly call that lots of cars.
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