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My company has banned the use of Jetbrains IDEs internally

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Re: My company has banned the use of Jetbrains IDEs internally

#171

Post by tsimionescu »

imp0cat wrote: post #160
tsimionescu wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It takes seconds or more to grep for a function, especially if it has a common name. It takes milliseconds to Go To Definition / Find Usages (either with an IDE or a LSP extension for any text editor).

Do those miliseconds also include the time where you have to move your hand from the keyboard to the mouse to ctrl+click the function name? ;) I see your point though. I guess I just disagree with the premise that using an IDE will increase productivity. The developer will always have to invest some effort into learning the tools, be it find and grep or an IDE.

The premise is that using proper code navigation functions will increase productivity over grep. Not that using an IDE will increase productivity over vim, assuming you use actual code navigation tools in vim.

As for the click: all IDEs and all code navigation tools for popular text editors like vim or emacs have full keyboard support. And M-. Or F2 or whatever are much quicker to type than "grep function_name".

Re: My company has banned the use of Jetbrains IDEs internally

#172

Post by tsimionescu »

zkry wrote: post #163
tsimionescu wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a five+ year Emacs user who primarily codes in Go and some Python, and is aware of eglot, other LSPs, elpy, etc: I fully agree that VSCode is the only real option. If you happen to have a passion for Emacs, as I do, awesome. But it's not realistic to start using Emacs when you need to switch off of another editor. I would never suggest to a new co-worker "try Emacs", though I would be more than happy to help them…

As an enthusiast myself I'd be tempted to come to the same conclusion but I'm surprised with the options and learning resources out there how quick some people can get up to speed in Emacs. Yeah, it will probably take a good weekend project worth of time, but it's pretty easily doable to make the switch.

Learning the basics you need is just one part. It takes far longer to get used to actually using what you learned. Whereas switching from IntelliJ to VSCode, you'll need the basic setup and appropriate plug-ins, and then you'll be basically fully up to speed. You'll take much longer just to get used to M-w instead of Ctrl+C.

Re: My company has banned the use of Jetbrains IDEs internally

#173

Post by trey-jones »

xtracto wrote: post #141
trey-jones wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The weird thing about comments like these is that of course you can do all of this stuff with Emacs, you just have to figure out how.

Haha I'm a vi guy never used emacs. Not meaning to start a war.

No worries, I think maybe I replied to the wrong comment - I would have expected to reply to someone who can't see how an Emacs (or vi) user could be as productive as an IDE user.

Re: My company has banned the use of Jetbrains IDEs internally

#174

Post by em-bee »

pluc wrote: post #154
camgunz wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm genuinely super curious because I hear this a lot, but the deepest I ever got was... 5 apps? Do you have some kind of like generic cover letter/resume you fire off 3 times a day? What is your process?

The first ~3 months I wrote specific cover letters and modified my resume according to what I was applying. Then I gave up and just blindly applied to everything without bothering to read anything other than the title and specific qualifications using a generic (but detailed and well-structured) resume.

from your response it is not clear whether you are still searching or if you found a job. i can understand getting tired, i feel the same, but i worry that taking less effort reduces my chances.

what are your thoughts on that?

(what is a well structured resume in your opinion? did you get any feedback if it is well perceived? i'd like to think that mine is detailed and well-structured too, but i don't feel certain that it is good)

Re: My company has banned the use of Jetbrains IDEs internally

#175

Post by pluc »

em-bee wrote: post #174
pluc wrote: post #154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The first ~3 months I wrote specific cover letters and modified my resume according to what I was applying. Then I gave up and just blindly applied to everything without bothering to read anything other than the title and specific qualifications using a generic (but detailed and well-structured) resume.

from your response it is not clear whether you are still searching or if you found a job. i can understand getting tired, i feel the same, but i worry that taking less effort reduces my chances. what are your thoughts on that? (what is a well structured resume in your opinion? did you get any feedback if it is well perceived? i'd like to think that mine is detailed and well-structured too, but i don't feel certain th…

I sold my house and fucked off to Europe. Hopefully will outlast whatever thing is happening, but I'm not that hopeful, so I'm searching for new passions. I still look for work once in a while and blindly apply to what a carefully crafted search query yields (searching job application sites (not job boards!) + position and/or skills). I decided after 3 months to go for quantity over quality. It hasn't been much more successful, but at least I don't get frustrated spending 2h researching a company, crafting a cover letter and creating a resume to get a refusal the next day.

Any time you'll ask for feedback someone will tell you to do things differently and it will never end. I've been hiring tech folks for 15 years, with 25 years total experience, so I know what I want to see when I look to fill a role, that's how I build my resume. I want it to show at a glance where I've worked and what I did there, no more no less.

If efforts are made and you see a difference, then don't stop. If you see no difference (eg uptick in responses or interviews), as is my case, I've got nothing to say that will help you. Sell your house and fuck off to Europe maybe.

Re: My company has banned the use of Jetbrains IDEs internally

#176

Post by em-bee »

pluc wrote: post #175
em-bee wrote: post #174

Earlier quoted context omitted.

from your response it is not clear whether you are still searching or if you found a job. i can understand getting tired, i feel the same, but i worry that taking less effort reduces my chances. what are your thoughts on that? (what is a well structured resume in your opinion? did you get any feedback if it is well perceived? i'd like to think that mine is detailed and well-structured too, but i don't feel certain th…

I sold my house and fucked off to Europe. Hopefully will outlast whatever thing is happening, but I'm not that hopeful, so I'm searching for new passions. I still look for work once in a while and blindly apply to what a carefully crafted search query yields (searching job application sites (not job boards!) + position and/or skills). I decided after 3 months to go for quantity over quality. It hasn't been much more…

I've been hiring tech folks for 15 years, with 25 years total experience, so I know what I want to see when I look to fill a role, that's how I build my resume

maybe you could share some insights here?

my CV starts with a few paragraphs highlighting what i think are my biggest accomplishments and showing off how broad my experience is. followed by a list of tools and languages i have worked with, then a list of projects and the employment history. for jobs where it seems relevant i also have a list of talks and workshops i have given. the whole thing is quite long though. 5 pages for the short version and 8 pages for the long one.

searching job application sites (not job boards!)

what's the difference here? do you mean the career/job lists on company websites?

Re: My company has banned the use of Jetbrains IDEs internally

#177

Post by pluc »

em-bee wrote: post #176
pluc wrote: post #175

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I sold my house and fucked off to Europe. Hopefully will outlast whatever thing is happening, but I'm not that hopeful, so I'm searching for new passions. I still look for work once in a while and blindly apply to what a carefully crafted search query yields (searching job application sites (not job boards!) + position and/or skills). I decided after 3 months to go for quantity over quality. It hasn't been much more…

I've been hiring tech folks for 15 years, with 25 years total experience, so I know what I want to see when I look to fill a role, that's how I build my resume maybe you could share some insights here? my CV starts with a few paragraphs highlighting what i think are my biggest accomplishments and showing off how broad my experience is. followed by a list of tools and languages i have worked with, then a list of proje…

I definitely don't want to read 5 pages especially if it's all redundant information. Mine is two pages, I don't dig in gigs past 10 years, they can ask if they want my origin story.

I don't care about the languages you know, I care about the languages you know and how recently you used them and your level of proficiency. Without that trifecta the information is useless (well, I'd have to ask). Was it a school project or did you blow someone's mind professionally?

I wouldn't do more than a sentence if you're going to summarize (eg 25 years of experience in building and leading technical teams), I can make my own unbiased summary.

As for application sites, I mean something like jobs.lever.co or boards.greenhouse.io.

Hope that helps, feel free to reach out by email.

Edit: mobile typos

Re: My company has banned the use of Jetbrains IDEs internally

#178

Post by thiht »

elric wrote: post #83
skwee357 wrote: post #66

Glad I invested the time to learn Vim. Can't trust anyone these days. Everything seems to revolve around politics.

Eclipse is still a great option for Java. And I was pleasantly surprised at Devoxx last month when Oracle's Stuart Marks whipped out ye olde Netbeans for some live coding during a talk. Dev tool monopolies are as bad as any other monopoly.

Honestly if Eclipse was the only option for writing code, I'd probably just find another job. I would probably choose Notepad and a terminal over Eclipse.

Re: My company has banned the use of Jetbrains IDEs internally

#179

Post by em-bee »

pluc wrote: post #177
em-bee wrote: post #176

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've been hiring tech folks for 15 years, with 25 years total experience, so I know what I want to see when I look to fill a role, that's how I build my resume maybe you could share some insights here? my CV starts with a few paragraphs highlighting what i think are my biggest accomplishments and showing off how broad my experience is. followed by a list of tools and languages i have worked with, then a list of proje…

I definitely don't want to read 5 pages especially if it's all redundant information. Mine is two pages, I don't dig in gigs past 10 years, they can ask if they want my origin story. I don't care about the languages you know, I care about the languages you know and how recently you used them and your level of proficiency. Without that trifecta the information is useless (well, I'd have to ask). Was it a school projec…

I care about the languages you know and how recently you used them and your level of proficiency. Without that trifecta the information is useless

this is not a question just for you, but i wonder what others think about this too.

i get that the number of years of using a language is a useful indicator, but the age? is my experience from 10 years ago no longer valid? also, proficiency in one language does translate to overall proficiency in any language. not 100% obviously, but the more programming experience i have the better i can learn new languages, and the faster i can get productive. same goes for any other tools. old experience is not forgotten. so even the years i have worked with any particular tool is missleading. and if i only list my work from the last 10 years then i'd look like all i have ever done is javascript, and that would limit my options very much.

i have been able to work on python and php projects as a mid-level developer without any formal prior experience in those languages. in the python case the employer knew about it and was still comfortable to hire me. in the php case i was able to cite some php work (which i had done) and i was still producing better results than any of the junior developers on my team. only the team lead was clearly more experienced then me.

how am i going to make that point if i don't list all of the projects i have worked on, no matter how long ago?

Re: My company has banned the use of Jetbrains IDEs internally

#180

Post by consteval »

curiousgal wrote: post #33
phplovesong wrote: post #7

IIRC jetbrains was a russian company, backed by people close to putin. Then they "migrated" away from russia (jetbrains users are 90% westerners) to avoid losing their users, and even made some blog post about it, but from what i have heard the people behind the curtains whose names are in no legal papers are in fact still the same people with close ties to putin and his inner circle.

Let's suppose that's true, so what? Is Putin Satan now? I don't see anyone rushing to boycott US companies over its state policy... Intellij is a great product, I would still use it even if it were Israeli.

It's perfectly valid to boycott a company if you disagree with their ideology.

For example, when chick-fil-a was openly anti-gay marriage (including after Obergefell), I stopped eating there. As a gay man, I don't want my money going to people who actively wish to harm me.

And it's fine. It was low friction, and I've saved a lot of calories.

That doesn't mean you're then required to boycott everything. Perfect isn't the enemy of good. If you feel like it, boycott.

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