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My company has banned the use of Jetbrains IDEs internally

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Re: My company has banned the use of Jetbrains IDEs internally

#151

Post by selivanovp »

reisse wrote: post #123
selivanovp wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Putin has nothing to do with it, pretty sure he doesn’t even know who they are. JetBrains founders are Russians, but they registered the company in Prague as their goal was foreign markets from the beginning and it was much safer to do business there than in 90’s Russia. Most of their programmers and RnD were Russians, they had close ties with several top Russian Universities to hire students from there. But yes, in…

> But yes, in 2022 they were told by their Western customers that they have to leave if they want their products to be bought, and JB evacuated from Russia, relocated people and fired those, who refused to leave, blocked Russian customers and in some cases terminated their ongoing licenses, forced their employees to cut any cooperation with Russia (their head of Kotlin decided to quit the company due to this policy a…

Nobody likes traitors. My guess is that in a couple of years JetBrains gonna be bought by one of the USA corps, most probably Google.

Re: My company has banned the use of Jetbrains IDEs internally

#152

Post by xigoi »

cruffle_duffle wrote: post #139
bawolff wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe i just never gave the heavyweight ide tools a fair chance, but i always found them more distracting than helpful. Focus is king for me, and vim gives me that.

VSCode is not a heavyweight IDE by any means.

It literally contains a whole browser engine just to render a UI.

Re: My company has banned the use of Jetbrains IDEs internally

#153

Post by xigoi »

tauwauwau wrote: post #52
toprerules wrote: post #9

I've seen so many editors come and go, and yet I've been using Vim for the past 20 years and have never had a problem. As stupid as it sounds, if I could give one piece of advice to any entry level SWE, it would be to learn Vim or Emacs and just stick with it for your whole career.

I don't even know what to say to this other than that you are right that it does sound stupid and it is stupid. A software developer should not be afraid of learning software, learning new things is fundamental in our work. Comparing an IDE with basic editor like vi, really, that may have worked out for you since you started 20 years ago when that worked, but it should not be the advice today.

Mainly, a seftware developer should not be afraid of creating neW tools to solve their own specific problems. Programmable editors like Vim allow you to do that, proprietary corporate IDEs do not.

Re: My company has banned the use of Jetbrains IDEs internally

#154

Post by pluc »

camgunz wrote: post #128
pluc wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I quit over principles about 9 months and 800 job applications ago. I'd advise not to do it unless you're sitting on a pile of cash.

I'm genuinely super curious because I hear this a lot, but the deepest I ever got was... 5 apps? Do you have some kind of like generic cover letter/resume you fire off 3 times a day? What is your process?

The first ~3 months I wrote specific cover letters and modified my resume according to what I was applying. Then I gave up and just blindly applied to everything without bothering to read anything other than the title and specific qualifications using a generic (but detailed and well-structured) resume.

Re: My company has banned the use of Jetbrains IDEs internally

#155

Post by syndicatedjelly »

jimbob45 wrote: post #27
toprerules wrote: post #9

I've seen so many editors come and go, and yet I've been using Vim for the past 20 years and have never had a problem. As stupid as it sounds, if I could give one piece of advice to any entry level SWE, it would be to learn Vim or Emacs and just stick with it for your whole career.

How can you possibly be as productive as someone working in Visual Studio? I'm asking honestly - working without the solution explorer, being able to look at any immediate variable, instruction pointer dragging, and others seems like it would slow me down immensely.

With vanilla Vim, you're right. I recently switched to NeoVim after years of using VSCode, and after about 2 weeks, I am probably back at about 90% of my productivity as VSCode. I had to spend a little time learning Lua and learning the internals of a text editor, but I wanted to learn those skills anyway so I'm glad to have had an excuse. If you have no interest in those things, then I wouldn't recommend leaving VSCode.

I am also excited by the fact that the text editor configuration is programmable in a Turing-complete language, as opposed to pure JSON configurations that VS Code offers (correct me if I'm wrong, but settings are just a JSON file right?). It means that anything is possible.

In VSCode, my biggest complaint was that, for the Vim extension, the status bar was not configurable - I wanted to make the whole page change color when in "Normal" mode, versus "Insert" mode. Not possible in VSCode, but it's only a handful of lines of Lua in Vim.

Is that a huge productivity boost? No, but it makes me happy. Just as much as I want to be productive, I also want to be happy while programming

Re: My company has banned the use of Jetbrains IDEs internally

#156

Post by aulin »

stackghost wrote: post #53
llm_trw wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Since I graduated, I've had people try to sell me on the following editors, which were going to be the future: BBEdit, TextMate, Sublime Text, Atom, Komodo Edit, NetBeans, and Eclipse. Each was going to kill Emacs. Somehow, I think I'll be using a version of Emacs until the day I can no longer type. Meanwhile, everyone else is wasting months getting up to speed on the latest and greatest thing every 8 years or so. Th…

>Meanwhile, everyone else is wasting months getting up to speed on the latest and greatest thing every 8 years or so. Yeah I used to think this way, because you're right: becoming proficient in emacs takes significant effort and time. But becoming proficient in VS code takes maybe 25 minutes. 25 minutes to change IDEs every 8 years or so doesn't seem like an onerous requirement to me. Emacs just has extremely poor de…

I honestly believe emacs UX to be fairly superior. I watch my colleagues struggle to find open files among tens of open tabs in vs code every day. Or endlessly navigating on the filesystem tree with the side bar before finding what they need. Things that take half a second in emacs take minutes for them. And the UI is so cluttered.

Re: My company has banned the use of Jetbrains IDEs internally

#157

Post by aulin »

stackghost wrote: post #100
llm_trw wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>But becoming proficient in VS code takes maybe 25 minutes. Becoming proficient in kicking a ball takes 5 minutes. Becoming proficient in football takes slightly longer. Magit alone makes VS Code look like a child's finger painting.

>Magit alone makes VS Code look like a child's finger painting. Magit is indeed a great git client, but I don't see what that has to do with emacs having bad defaults and an out of box experience that could be charitably described as antique.

Bad defaults for who? Emacs userbase is quite heterogeneous, not everyone is a swdev, not everyone is young. All it takes to have great defaults is maybe ten instructions in init.el.

Re: My company has banned the use of Jetbrains IDEs internally

#158

Post by valval »

bawolff wrote: post #38
twelve40 wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I find this and the emacs sentiment really weird. I use vim daily for quick edits, but for any sizeable codebase, especially new/unfamiliar, IDE's are just better. It's like depriving yourself of a bunch of tools and helpers for no visible benefit.

Maybe i just never gave the heavyweight ide tools a fair chance, but i always found them more distracting than helpful. Focus is king for me, and vim gives me that.

I use IDEs with vim keybinds and zen mode (full screen, hide everything except text editor) when writing code.

Re: My company has banned the use of Jetbrains IDEs internally

#159

Post by andreasha »

ironman1478 wrote: post #30
toprerules wrote: post #9

I've seen so many editors come and go, and yet I've been using Vim for the past 20 years and have never had a problem. As stupid as it sounds, if I could give one piece of advice to any entry level SWE, it would be to learn Vim or Emacs and just stick with it for your whole career.

Vim is great but I think VSCode really is the one tool to rule them all going forward. It's extremely well designed, snappy, and I think does the correct thing of first treating everything as a text file and allowing plugins to provide semantic meaning. I never liked visual studio because it was too specific to writing software and using the GUI to do what I wanted. Editing msbuild files directly was a pain for examp…

>pipe cli output directly to VSCode in the shell and then it opens a tab displaying that output

Example from VSCode Terminal: $ echo hello | code -

Re: My company has banned the use of Jetbrains IDEs internally

#160

Post by imp0cat »

tsimionescu wrote: post #89
imp0cat wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Care to elaborate what's wrong with find and grep?

It takes seconds or more to grep for a function, especially if it has a common name. It takes milliseconds to Go To Definition / Find Usages (either with an IDE or a LSP extension for any text editor).

Do those miliseconds also include the time where you have to move your hand from the keyboard to the mouse to ctrl+click the function name? ;)

I see your point though. I guess I just disagree with the premise that using an IDE will increase productivity.

The developer will always have to invest some effort into learning the tools, be it find and grep or an IDE.

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