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Ubuntu squeezes more performance than Windows 11 on new AMD Zen 4 Threadripper

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Re: Ubuntu squeezes more performance than Windows 11 on new AMD Zen 4 Threadripper

#171
post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have been using using Linux for 16 years in total and 7+ years as my primary OS. Ubuntu itself is a performance hog due to snaps. And Ubuntu is NOT beginner friendly. As an ex-IT guy and as a linux enthusiast, It was not when I deployed it to developers and tech people in my company. And it is not beginner friendly when I install it to my friends & family. I used to use Ubuntu for work until last week. Used it beca…

Arch is terrible due to their bare testing package release policy. Generally accepted recommends: - Windows converts: Mint - General: Fedora / PopOS - Rolling: Suse Tumbleweed - Config fanatics: Nix - Minimalistic fanatics: Void / Alpine

> Arch is terrible due to their bare testing package release policy.

It is NOT. This is biggest mystery I have about people's perception about Arch Linux. Arch provides latest upstream stable packages unlike point releases. NOT developer branches of packages BUT STABLE versions of package as soon as it is available. Point releases like ubuntu gives you old versions of software. And backport security patches against that version from latest stable packages which again leads to possible bugs etc etc. Apart from Linux, you will never see anyone calling a latest stable version of a software as "bleeding edge". You don't say iOS 17 as bleeding edge. It is the latest stable version of the iOS. Windows 11 is not bleeding edge, it is the latest stable version of windows OS.

I have a 5+ year installation Arch installation from which I am writing this comment. It is fast easier to use and predictable. Point releases always give you a easy jumpstart and it is often a pain to maintain in the longer run. Arch definitely requires initial time investment (It is after all a DIY distro, not a managed distro), but it is easier to maintain. I use Arch because I am lazy. I don't want unpredicatable changes.

I don't think I am going to complain getting firefox 119 (which is the latest STABLE version at the time of writing) within a week or two. Especially in these times where we should be using latest packages for security and stability.

Also repost for Linux distros (like stable/unstable/testing) is testing a package against the distro. It is NOT checking the stability of the software itself. It is checking the stability of a software/packages against a particular distro.

Re: Ubuntu squeezes more performance than Windows 11 on new AMD Zen 4 Threadripper

#173

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have not. Any good links?

Yes Google "Ubuntu 2022" or "Kubuntu 2022" if you prefer KDE (I do), install and run it, that's all you have to do.

In that case, the problem still exists. I was running the most recent PopOS (Ubuntu based) and it was still a problem.

Re: Ubuntu squeezes more performance than Windows 11 on new AMD Zen 4 Threadripper

#174
post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Interesting thought, but you might be missing the hardware perspective. I switched from Windows to Linux this year, and the biggest issue has been drivers and hardware compatibility: audio available via headphones but not (laptop) built-in speakers, occasional display issues depending on the monitor setup, occasional WiFi issues. If hardware innovation stopped, Linux could catch up easily... but it won't, so there is…

I've had a much worse time with hardware on windows than Linux these last couple of years. My work laptop runs Windows and will get stuck in a BSPD bootloop if I turn it on with external monitors connected. My USB keyboard and mouse disconnect every few minutes. Windows may as well not even have Bluetooth for as well as it works. Some devices always show as connected, despite not being present. I have to un-pair my h…

> some weird old PCI cards that only have XP drivers, but work fine with Linux.

I will say, supporting old hardware is probably Linux's strong suit, because their model of upstream first means that maintenance tends to get carried a lot further than proprietary drivers ever would.

Re: Ubuntu squeezes more performance than Windows 11 on new AMD Zen 4 Threadripper

#175

Earlier quoted context omitted.

IMO, the best way to get comfortable with Linux is to get comfortable with the command line, because although every distribution is going to have different UI and built-in apps, the command line is going to stay pretty consistent. Also, a lot of troubleshooting you Google is going to involve interacting with the command line, and it's essential to understand what the commands you're executing are actually doing. I'd…

And that right there is why Linux is so frustrating to start with. It is easier to solve most problems via command line however a normal user should never ever have to touch a command line. Everything for a common person should be easily accessible via a gui.

> Everything for a common person should be easily accessible via a gui.

They are. Just there are many different GUIs. Each distro by definition has different ones and you can easily change them yourself etc.

There are dozens of sound GUIs, hell, I've tried 4 redshift GUIs before settling on QRedshift. It's so easy to write software for Linux that you have countless opportunities. That's why the command line is easier - it always works(ish).

Re: Ubuntu squeezes more performance than Windows 11 on new AMD Zen 4 Threadripper

#176

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Perhaps I should have chosen another flavor? That'll ignite a holy war. The trick with linux isn't to learn the flavour, it's to learn linux - once you get an overview of how all the bits work then switching distro is (much) more straightforward. Ubuntu is an excellent first choice because it's one of the major distro's so you'll be able to google stuff more easily. My personal recommendation would be Fedora (and i…

I have been eyeing up Fedora Onyx for the immutable root

I've been using an immutable Fedora for quite a while now and it's amazing. I use toolbox and run everything in containers, including GUI apps, so not even using Flatpak which I'm not a big fan of. I think I have like 3 or 4 packages installed on top of the base image. The peace of mind while upgrading can't be overstated. Highly recommended.

Re: Ubuntu squeezes more performance than Windows 11 on new AMD Zen 4 Threadripper

#177
post #70

If Microsoft backs off core Windows development, which it certainly seems like they are, this is what we'd expect to see... not a big bang where it suddenly stops working, but every year it'll just sort of fall a bit more behind Linux, until in 4 or 5 years the difference consensus will slowly just creep over to Windows being noticeably worse than Linux without any big bang switchover... and it'll sneak up on Microso…

> If Microsoft backs off core Windows development, which it certainly seems like they are, this is what we'd expect to see...

If this is really true, I am deeply saddened. I grew up using almost entirely nothing but Windows since 98, and have used every version (except Windows Me) since.

As a desktop and enterprise OS, Windows is pretty fantastic to develop with, natively, contrary to many opinions here. Technologies like COM, .NET (Framework), Win32, Direct{2D, 3D}, and the Windows API are all very powerful and fairly future-proof, too.

Core Windows/NT development is extremely fun, interesting, and the choices that the NT kernel developers made in the 90s put it light years ahead of the competition. Consider its advanced permissions model (ACLs versus UIDs and GIDs), its plug-and-play driver model, and its ability to run on a wide variety of hardware.

Re: Ubuntu squeezes more performance than Windows 11 on new AMD Zen 4 Threadripper

#178
post #161

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On Windows 11 - Right click Taskbar - Choose "Taskbar Settings" - Untick Widget. Weather badge gone. - Untick Teams (if you have it- I don't, and don't have Teams popping up)

Sometimes I think people compalaining about windows are just to lazy to look through the settings and search for the things they want to change. Windows has a lot of things to complain and be 'angry' about, but 90% of the issues I see people mentionning are completly solvable with a few clicks.

>Sometimes I think people compalaining about windows are just to lazy to look through the settings and search for the things they want to change.

Sometimes?!

Re: Ubuntu squeezes more performance than Windows 11 on new AMD Zen 4 Threadripper

#179
post #70

If Microsoft backs off core Windows development, which it certainly seems like they are, this is what we'd expect to see... not a big bang where it suddenly stops working, but every year it'll just sort of fall a bit more behind Linux, until in 4 or 5 years the difference consensus will slowly just creep over to Windows being noticeably worse than Linux without any big bang switchover... and it'll sneak up on Microso…

Microsoft should invest in Proton, make Windows apps work seamless on linux, and then just make a "Windows" replacement for Wayland that runs on Kernel... Then, and only then, will we have "The year of the linux desktop"

I mean, this is actually backwards from a pure engineering POV from what would be actually excellent.

The core Windows NT kernel is quite excellent, and was always in some ways far superior to what Unix offered. E.g. proper asynchronous I/O from day one. Dave Cutler and crew did a bang-up job. Linux is only getting competitive things like io_uring now(ish).

The problem was the shitty API and user space they papered in front of it with. Lack of a proper CLI shell, slow filesystem, the godawful "registry", a low quality, unsafe windowing toolkit (Win32 API), and then, after WinXP, bad UX / environment stuff. And, of course, the fact that everything was proprietary, closed/closed-source, and the $$ licensing story for running a WindowsNT server was always garbage.

As a user operating system none of this mattered so much because the sheer mass of the market meant that driver support and application support was always going to win out on Windows.

But these days, with all my attached devices being USB-Cish things that just implement USB standards I have zero issues in Linux. In fact, audio interface support works better for me in Ubuntu than it does in Windows right now.

But people who were serious about running servers naturally stuck with Unix, despite it being in some ways technically inferior on paper -- because that experience on NT just wasn't as good. Remote administration via GUI. Anemic CLI. MS proprietary everything. Per-user $$ licensing stuff. Tight coupling with IIS & SQL Server, which has their own licensing stuff, etc. etc. etc.

Anyways, I think it would be a shame if MS gave up on the NT kernel.

With WSL1 they did an interesting job of getting Linux user space running overtop of the NT kernel, but they dropped that approach with WSL2 and went with a more VM approach.

Re: Ubuntu squeezes more performance than Windows 11 on new AMD Zen 4 Threadripper

#180
post #75
post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have a Zen 2 Threadripper box that I dual boot (it's a workstation for coding that I sometimes play games on), and I can confirm. I don't know what the exact technical reason is or why nobody in Redmond is embarrassed. But anything relating to the filesystem is simply dog-slow on Windows, and the more high-end your system is, the more this becomes the major bottleneck.

I blame Windows Defender (anti-virus). It's the first thing I disable whenever I want to do some serious disk I/O. Also Windows still uses NTFS which dates back to 2000. For compatibility reasons, fair enough. But surely NTFS wasn't designed with SSDs in mind, let alone NVMEs.

NTFS has had several updates over the years, and supports trim just fine.

Of course, that doesn't make it comparable to ext4 or zfs or whatever, but I wouldn't expect it to be the worst bottleneck in the system.

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