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I hate what video games have become

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Re: I hate what video games have become

#171

Post by sofixa »

Semaphor wrote: post #90

I’m glad there is this whole parallel universe of amazing single player (or MP-optional) games with absolutely no dark patterns, loot boxes or any of the shit people who play MP games have to put up with. I buy a game, and unless I get the DLC(s)/Expanions pack(s), that’s all I’ll ever have to pay. Civilization V: Over 2000 hours. Pathfinder: Kingmaker/Wrath of the righteous: Over 1000 hours each. Stellaris [0]: Almo…

> Some people hate the Paradox DLC style, personally I think it’s amazing

Yep. Some people might argue that this or that mechanic should be in the base game because it's too important, but in general the Paradox model is great. Games get interesting new content many years after release, which you have to pay for, but it enables Paradox to actually do the work. The latest DLC for Hearts of Iron 4 took more than a year to develop and drastically changed the game ( it added logistics, trains, depos) for the better. If it were not paid, they wouldn't have been able to afford it.

Re: I hate what video games have become

#172

Post by Kiro »

legalcorrection wrote: post #162
Kiro wrote: post #155

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Good thing they have whales like me who will spend 100x of what you would have paid. They don't need you when they can milk me.

This is like bragging about being in the demographic that keeps celebrity gossip tabloids afloat. Do you also lose a lot of money on MLM schemes? Are Vegas casinos comping week-long stays for you?

I'm not into MLM schemes (or gambling) but I do love celebrity gossip. Since apparently you get to decide what interests are cool or not, I would love to hear what kind of amazing things you are into!

Re: I hate what video games have become

#173

Post by freedom2099 »

Kiro wrote: post #158
tsimionescu wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a business model that works off of whales. It's predatory and exploits the same people that gambling does.

I'm a whale and I don't feel exploited. I don't like gambling but I like buying chests. People spending money on trips or cars, things I have no interest in, are also exploited in that case.

But you do like gambling! Buying chests is exactly that! Just like a casino gambler might prefer blackjack over roulette!

Re: I hate what video games have become

#174

Post by moron4hire »

hypertele-Xii wrote: post #42
pengaru wrote: post #15

There's a lot to dislike, but my gripes as a developer who occasionally dabbles in games are more along the lines of "this puzzle game prototype is interesting and may be worth polishing up and tossing on steam, but oh right, it won't even pay for itself unless I turn it into yet another gambling machine." Then I go back to writing system software.

What exactly makes you think as someone who "dabbles in games" to be entitled to profit? AFAIK it costs $100 +30% to publish on Steam. It only takes 260 people to buy your game at 50 cents to break even. If your game can't sell 260 copies at 50 cents then it's just that, worthless. Why not just release your game for free, for free? Does it have to be on Steam? Does it have to make money?

Weird take to make on a site about entrepreneurship

Re: I hate what video games have become

#175

Post by teddyh »

cletus wrote: post #101

In the early smartphone era I was extremely bullish on mobile gaming. I expected a creative explosion and a golden age of gaming due to the power, convenience and (inevitable) ubiqutity. But then in-app purchases happened and we got to see first hand what happens with developers have seamless integration into a payments infrastructure combined with the ability to push updates constantly and easily. This really should…

Benjamin Richard “Yahtzee” Croshaw (of Zero Punctuation) agree with you:

https://www.escapistmagazine.com/what-the-hell-happened-to-m...

Re: I hate what video games have become

#176

Post by CaptArmchair »

bambax wrote: post #160

> once you stop playing a game 100% of the money you spend on it disappears, you can’t recover any of it, not 50%, not 20%, just nothing (...) Can you imagine if other art mediums were this ridiculous? Well, we're getting there. Streaming services, and all subscription offerings, are systems where you don't own anything, and you lose everything the moment you stop paying.

The difference here is that the value proposition of a streaming service is pretty clear up front. Whereas in a context of f2p games, you're given the impression that you're actually acquiring ownership over the digital assets you're buying.

Clearly, that's not the case. You're not buying IP rights of those assets. You only buy a license to consume those assets.

Re: I hate what video games have become

#177

Post by Groxx »

robin_reala wrote: post #146
telchior wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fair criticism, but one that is only relevant in the first place because of freemium. Prior to that business model, there was no such thing as a company continuing to provide regular, ongoing support to a 7 year old game of the non-subscription variety. I mean, how or why would they? You release something; it makes 90% of its lifetime revenue in year 1; if you continue working on it for 6 more years, you're out of bu…

No Man’s Sky has been getting 6 years of updates purely out of a wounded sense of pride.

Wounded pride and a ton of money for a small company like that. They got enough money to comfortably run the company for at least a couple years if not the entire time since launch until now. The wikipedia page sticks it right along-side other highly successful AAA launches around the same time because it was that "successful" despite being an absolute mess of a game: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No_Man%27s_Sky#Sales

Re: I hate what video games have become

#178

Post by duckmysick »

OtomotO wrote: post #151

As a (non game) developer, I can say, thay free to play is instantly dead on arrival for me. The moment something is known to become or becomes free to play is the moment I lose all interest. The dishonesty in the system itself is what makes this unbearable for me. Developers need to eat, Managers need to eat, Marketeers need to eat... And sometimes psychologists doing evil mindtricks and supporting gambling addictio…

I've been wondering why we have such different reactions to free to play games and free software. I know gaming has different value proposition, but free software and services share a lot of similarities. It's not just feeding the creators. There are tricks and "addictions" too. Do you like the free version but want to scale up, remove that restrictive license, or unlock new features? No problem, just pay up a bit. It's no big deal; look at our landing page where you can see other players - I'm sorry, other businesses - who happily have done that. Some even do cosmetics too (we'll show your logo and remove ours in the UI facing your customers).

Is it dishonest? I don't know. But the tactics are similar.

Re: I hate what video games have become

#179

Post by imiric »

therouwboat wrote: post #147
dado3212 wrote: post #7

I have basically the opposite opinion of this article. I often hold up Rocket League as an example of a great free-to-play game. 1) You 100% can unlock a lot of cosmetic items through free play. 2) The items that you buy have absolutely no impact on gameplay and are just visuals. For the same reason that people wear nice clothes in real life, why are you surprised that some people want to look cool in a video game? A…

"Are you surprised that people don’t just wear monochrome black shirts in real life?" No and thats why its silly to say rocket league items have no impact on gameplay, ofcourse its nicer play with hot wheels car that has animated decals than grey corolla. I would like game to be more like "if you get this good, you get these cool items" instead of something like "if we put paid rewards right next to free rewards, the…

> now it feels like I'm being manipulated to give money to somebody who owns rocket league.

Epic Games. Why are we surprised by this when they saw a cash cow when they bought it, and have done nothing but turn it into another Fortnite?

I think this type of game needs its own genre. Fortnite, RL, GTA Online, Warzone... They all follow the same model of "build a good multiplayer experience and "support it" perpetually by squeezing as much revenue as you can from your users".

I was a huge RL fan in 2015/16. It started going down hill sometime after that and EG has run it into the ground.

Re: I hate what video games have become

#180

Post by Kiro »

freedom2099 wrote: post #173
Kiro wrote: post #158

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm a whale and I don't feel exploited. I don't like gambling but I like buying chests. People spending money on trips or cars, things I have no interest in, are also exploited in that case.

But you do like gambling! Buying chests is exactly that! Just like a casino gambler might prefer blackjack over roulette!

No, in most games I know what I'm getting so there's no randomness. I buy a chest of 1000 gems in order to buy X in game. How is that gambling? Sure, some games force the randomness on me through chests with unknown content but that's not what I'm paying for.
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