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Israel Finds Fourth Covid Booster Is Ineffective

healthpolicy-watch.news

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Re: Israel Finds Fourth Covid Booster Is Ineffective

#171

Post by mmmrtl »

Jimmc414 wrote: post #153
mmmrtl wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

stopping transmission is an impossibly high bar. Vaccines reduce transmission. Really really shockingly unexpectedly well for the first few months, in previous waves, but that sterilizing antibody-mediated immunity wanes. The booster restores that efficacy against transmission, but omicron's immune evasion means that even a booster only gets to ~70% efficacy against cases/transmission, compared to the surprise findin…

I don't believe that is accurate. Several studies show no significant difference between the viral load of vaccinated and unvaccinated. Here is one https://www.ucdavis.edu/health/covid-19/news/viral-loads-sim... Also, recent reports from Denmark seem to indicate that vaccinated at best have equal protection against Omicron. Too early to declare this as fact, but the initial data actually favors a slight negative effi…

Confirmation bias is a tricky beast...

Even if Ct values are unchanged between vaccinated and unvaccinated cases, this is conditioned on being infected in the first place, and isn't the whole story. Duration of infectiousness matters.

Yes, boosters are necessary to reduce infection with Omicron, the antibodies from the original vaccine are just too big of a mismatch. That's not news. I'm glad to hear you're not taking those negative efficacy estimates at face value - it's almost certainly the result of missing confounders present at the start of their omicron wave. Unvaccinated individuals are probably less likely to live in urban areas, travel internationally, or even seek a covid test, for example.

Re: Israel Finds Fourth Covid Booster Is Ineffective

#172

Post by sofixa »

Jimmc414 wrote: post #166
sofixa wrote: post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Is fear of the unvaccinated clogging up hospitals the primary motivation? Yes? Hasn't it always been? Beds in ICUs are the main limiting factor of how much Covid we can handle. Lowering hospitalisations is great, that way it can end up as "just a bad flu" we have ( as in, a virus that's present, and spreading, and people get it, and some unfortunate people die from it, but doesn't grind whole countries to a stop).

In your opinion, would you say that the vaccine program has been a success?

That's a rather vague question. I don't pretend to be an expert, but i do consider the vaccine rollout and management to be a success in the country i live in and have followed most closely - France. The global vaccine rollout is decent, but severely lacking in many poorer countries that should be helped.

Re: Israel Finds Fourth Covid Booster Is Ineffective

#173

Post by mmmrtl »

lostmsu wrote: post #148
loeg wrote: post #9

If this source is legit — and I’ve never heard of it, so who knows — the headline is missing a pretty significant word: > A fourth COVID-19 booster mRNA vaccine has proven ineffective against Omicron infection

The title should be edited accordingly

*An Israeli Study Finds Fourth Covid Vaccine Dose Is Only Slightly More Effective Than Third Dose At Producing Antibodies Against Omicron

Re: Israel Finds Fourth Covid Booster Is Ineffective

#174

Post by encryptluks2 »

landemva wrote: post #147
stuaxo wrote: post #74

Great, can we get on with vaccinating the rest of the world now ?

With whose money? Is it possible to vaccinate all wild animals and every house cat?

The vaccinated still get and spread COVID and it is quite possible vaccinated individuals may actually contribute more than unvaxxed to more dangerous variants.

Re: Israel Finds Fourth Covid Booster Is Ineffective

#175

Post by kyrra »

Daishiman wrote: post #80
kyrra wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And many (most?) of these policies ignore natural immunity that people are getting from catching COVID.

They do https://academic.oup.com/cid/advance-article/doi/10.1093/cid... .

I agree that studies that look at natural immunity find that it actually does something (also, those who were vaccinated then later got Covid have really strong immune response [0]). My issue is with the CDC, OSHA rules, HHS worker rules, and others that totally ignore natural immunity with their policies.

[0] https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/fullarticle/2787447?gu...

Re: Israel Finds Fourth Covid Booster Is Ineffective

#176

Post by encryptluks2 »

hourislate wrote: post #110

Folks shouldn't worry whether it's effective or not. Just go get it because it's never a bad thing to keep everything topped up. I hope they mandate everyone to take those new pills Pfizer came out with, that will probably make us super human Covid fighting machines. If we just keep taking boosters and those new pills Covid doesn't stand a chance. Please make sure you tell everyone who isn't vaccinated to get vaccina…

I hope this is sarcasm.. it has to be. Although the term top up sounds like something the government would say, just like boosted. I'm waiting for the ads on television where they show old people getting "boosted" and talk about how great they feel afterwards, when in reality I've known several people that had to stay in bed for a few days after their vaccinations and acted like it was a normal thing.

Re: Israel Finds Fourth Covid Booster Is Ineffective

#177

Post by ceejayoz »

2muchcoffeeman wrote: post #129
Vthrowaway153 wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Note that this data is pre-omicron.

I think it’s hard to get good data anymore since so many people are vaccinated. I’ve heard one news outlet report that some scientists were trying to analyse the unvaccinated data only and initial findings were showing Omicron may be just as bad as Alpha. But small sample size etc etc so we really don’t know.

There are tens of millions of unvaccinated in the US alone. Plenty of data to be had.

Re: Israel Finds Fourth Covid Booster Is Ineffective

#178

Post by ceejayoz »

kyrra wrote: post #175
Daishiman wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They do https://academic.oup.com/cid/advance-article/doi/10.1093/cid... .

I agree that studies that look at natural immunity find that it actually does something (also, those who were vaccinated then later got Covid have really strong immune response [0]). My issue is with the CDC, OSHA rules, HHS worker rules, and others that totally ignore natural immunity with their policies. [0] https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/fullarticle/2787447?gu...

> totally ignore natural immunity with their policies

Because it’s difficult to verify. “Oh, I had it last year” would become the new “the ADA says you can’t make me wear a mask” thing.

Re: Israel Finds Fourth Covid Booster Is Ineffective

#179

Post by mmmrtl »

Jimmc414 wrote: post #153
mmmrtl wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

stopping transmission is an impossibly high bar. Vaccines reduce transmission. Really really shockingly unexpectedly well for the first few months, in previous waves, but that sterilizing antibody-mediated immunity wanes. The booster restores that efficacy against transmission, but omicron's immune evasion means that even a booster only gets to ~70% efficacy against cases/transmission, compared to the surprise findin…

I don't believe that is accurate. Several studies show no significant difference between the viral load of vaccinated and unvaccinated. Here is one https://www.ucdavis.edu/health/covid-19/news/viral-loads-sim... Also, recent reports from Denmark seem to indicate that vaccinated at best have equal protection against Omicron. Too early to declare this as fact, but the initial data actually favors a slight negative effi…

Dropped the citation. https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMc2102507 Thanks to the NBA for good time series data

Re: Israel Finds Fourth Covid Booster Is Ineffective

#180

Post by dgfitz »

LeoPanthera wrote: post #141
dgfitz wrote: post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why does it matter?

It seems very selfish to me, knowing you are maximizing the risk of passing the infection on to other people, and prolonging the pandemic for everyone. Maybe you are fearful of the vaccine, but the sheer number of people who have received one should, if you understand basic statistics, cure you of that fear. Even if it doesn't, refusing to wear a mask is just plain arrogant.

Arrogance is attempting dictate others actions via emotional manipulation (shame in this case), and selfishness is exhibited by people who want others to do a certain thing because it benefits themselves.

The mask/vaccine conversations are completely worn out at this point. Let it go.

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