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> I do not wear a mask. No vax. Why not?
Why does it matter?
Israel Finds Fourth Covid Booster Is Ineffective
131–140 of 272 posts
Re: Israel Finds Fourth Covid Booster Is Ineffective
#132Earlier quoted context omitted.
> And I can only imagine many people would be happy to mandate a fourth as soon as possible. I'm sorry but I'm not understanding the logic. The booster was recommended after several rounds of research across multiple countries suggested it was a good idea, with Israel doing some of the first testing and reaching the conclusion that it was worthwhile (and it was, by a substantial margin). Their research is now indicat…
> I'm sorry but I'm not understanding the logic. The booster was recommended after several rounds of research across multiple countries suggested it was a good idea, with Israel doing some of the first testing and reaching the conclusion that it was worthwhile (and it was, by a substantial margin). You are misinformed. There is a paucity of data supporting boosters, what little exists is for people over 65 (to be fai…
>and the FDA and CDC advisory committees both recommended against mandatory boosting of younger populations. They were bypassed. Two long-time FDA scientists resigned over the issue
Where does it say mandatory booster?
Re: Israel Finds Fourth Covid Booster Is Ineffective
#133Earlier quoted context omitted.
The intended effect of the vaccines was to reduce the mortality and the severe morbidity of infection and thereby reduce the human burden of the disease and indirectly protect the capacity of healthcare systems to function. In this respect, the vaccines have been enormously successful. Were that not so, the incidence of the omicron variant would have already caused healthcare systems worldwide to collapse.
Having omnicron "rip through" would actually be a great thing, I've just read an article from Belgium saying they have no patients with omnicron in ICUs. It does seem some people need supervision but I presume the load is much much reduced. Also omnicron doesn't seem to spare vaccinated neither in symptoms nor in infection rate, but that's just anecdotal, maybe someone has other information?
Do you have a source on Belgium? I found this article from a week ago that says that a single hospital (as far as I can tell) had no omicron icu patients at time of publication, but it also indicates that they might not be tracking it that systematically?
Anyway, I don’t really think there’s all that much mitigation possible, but I’m not convinced “let it rip” is necessarily a good thing depending on vaccination rates (I’m in the US, we’ll see how it goes)
https://www.brusselstimes.com/health/200725/omicron-dominati...
Re: Israel Finds Fourth Covid Booster Is Ineffective
#134There are two separate questions: Does an extra booster prevent infection? Does an extra booster reduce hospitalizations and deaths? Seems this study only addressed the first question. But instead of giving a fourth shot based on the OG Covid, seems an updated version based on omicron, delta, and any new variants of concern would be a better idea.
> Does an extra booster reduce hospitalizations and deaths? A meta question: how do these studies control for the fact that people who care enough to get a booster are more likely to care proactively about their health? Lots of good outcomes correlate with caring.
'... people who care enough to get a booster are more likely to care proactively about their health'
Are there studies to show people who care about health get boosters? My neighbors are hyper healthy and undosed. I am undosed and I exercise regularly.
I generally see many people who sat on couch for two years put on considerable weight. Getting dosed while eating ourselves into 2x pants sizes doesn't seem to be good for health, as it increases the co-morbidity counter.
Re: Israel Finds Fourth Covid Booster Is Ineffective
#135Earlier quoted context omitted.
> I'm sorry but I'm not understanding the logic. The booster was recommended after several rounds of research across multiple countries suggested it was a good idea, with Israel doing some of the first testing and reaching the conclusion that it was worthwhile (and it was, by a substantial margin). You are misinformed. There is a paucity of data supporting boosters, what little exists is for people over 65 (to be fai…
I mean, I can just dump a bunch of links to studies and details about how boosters are highly effective, even for young people. https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/acip/meetings/downloads/slides-... https://www.mdpi.com/2076-393X/10/1/23/pdf https://news.harvard.edu/gazette/story/2022/01/no-omicron-im... https://www.nature.com/articles/s41591-021-01575-4 https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.12.13.21267748v... https:…
> I mean, I can just dump a bunch of links to studies and details about how boosters are highly effective, even for young people. And I can find dozens more.
This isn't baseball cards. The person with the most URLs doesn't win. You have to read the data and understand what it says.
You clearly don't, because you're citing pop-science sources such as "The Harvard Gazette", and irrelevant papers about viral loads in breakthrough infections, as if these are meaningful to the debate.
However, it is apropos that you cited the CDC ACIP deck from their November 19 meeting [1], since it quite clearly lays out the lack of data, and shows how reluctant ACIP was to recommend boosters for all. See slides 29 and 35 for a summary.
See slide 37 for a (rather hilarious) graph showing "number needed to boost" to prevent one hospitalization in 18-29 year olds (8,000-12,000) vs 65 year olds (481-859), which goes right to the heart of the issue: boosters provide scant benefit against severe illness for younger people.
See slide 61 for the CDC ACIP final recommendation, which clearly shows that healthy people under age 50 MAY receive a booster, but weren't recommended to get one.
This is exactly what I said above, what is written in the articles I quoted, and what you dismiss as "appeals to authority". It's right there in the source you linked. It couldn't be clearer. Did you read it?
[1] https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/acip/meetings/downloads/slides-...
Re: Israel Finds Fourth Covid Booster Is Ineffective
#136Something is not right. CNN reported the same study, with contradictory quotes from the same doctor: Fourth vaccine dose boosts antibodies, researchers say, but likely not enough to prevent Omicron breakthrough infections http://lite.cnn.com/en/article/h_69134b5be555abcb7c1609154ab... --- healthpolicy-watch.news ----- According to Regev-Yochay, the third dose resulted in “much higher antibodies, neutralization and th…
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Re: Israel Finds Fourth Covid Booster Is Ineffective
#137Something is not right. CNN reported the same study, with contradictory quotes from the same doctor: Fourth vaccine dose boosts antibodies, researchers say, but likely not enough to prevent Omicron breakthrough infections http://lite.cnn.com/en/article/h_69134b5be555abcb7c1609154ab... --- healthpolicy-watch.news ----- According to Regev-Yochay, the third dose resulted in “much higher antibodies, neutralization and th…
My understanding is that a fourth booster doesn't seem to prevent breakthrough infections (which are very common with Omicron), but it does seem to reduce severity and hospitalizations (which are very uncommon with Omicron). Maybe it reduces the chance of a breakthrough but it's still common.
This is what the third booster does and probably also what being vaccinated closer to infection date does. This is exactly what happens when you have more antibodies.
Re: Israel Finds Fourth Covid Booster Is Ineffective
#138[deleted]
Re: Israel Finds Fourth Covid Booster Is Ineffective
#139Record cases across the planet regardless of vaccination rates...how much longer until official sources are willing to acknowledge that these vaccines are not nearly as effective as claimed? How long before official sources acknowledge that breakthrough cases are probably drastically underreported? I can't be the only one surrounded by fully vaccinated individuals testing positive. Its happening far too often for me…
The intended effect of the vaccines was to reduce the mortality and the severe morbidity of infection and thereby reduce the human burden of the disease and indirectly protect the capacity of healthcare systems to function. In this respect, the vaccines have been enormously successful. Were that not so, the incidence of the omicron variant would have already caused healthcare systems worldwide to collapse.
Revisionist history at its best. If that was the intended effect, officials sure weren't very clear about it.
Re: Israel Finds Fourth Covid Booster Is Ineffective
#140Rochelle Walensky, the CDC director, has stated that vaccines do reduce severity, but they do not stop transmission. Assuming her words represent the scientific and expert opinion, could someone offer a coherent argument as to why there is so much pressure for others to get vaccinated? Is fear of the unvaccinated clogging up hospitals the primary motivation?
stopping transmission is an impossibly high bar. Vaccines reduce transmission. Really really shockingly unexpectedly well for the first few months, in previous waves, but that sterilizing antibody-mediated immunity wanes. The booster restores that efficacy against transmission, but omicron's immune evasion means that even a booster only gets to ~70% efficacy against cases/transmission, compared to the surprise findin…
Polio was stopped. Since we can't stop Covid in wild animals, and since severity is moderating, when do we plan to end Covid mandates?