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Israel may have destroyed Iranian centrifuges simply by cutting power

theintercept.com

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Re: Israel may have destroyed Iranian centrifuges simply by cutting power

#171

Post by monocasa »

philwelch wrote: post #121
HenryKissinger wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is truth in this comment. Parts of the Russian government have reverted to using mechanical typewriters in lieu of computers, which are too susceptible to malicious hacking. Also, the US Navy started instructing enlisted seamen how to navigate at sea by the stars, in case GPS stops working.

> Also, the US Navy started instructing enlisted seamen how to navigate at sea by the stars, in case GPS stops working. Is the threat model there that someone hacks the GPS signal, or that someone shoots down the GPS satellites? Lots of countries have ASATs these days.

Probably jamming. GPS signals are very faint, and on fixed frequency bands.

Re: Israel may have destroyed Iranian centrifuges simply by cutting power

#172

Post by mijamo »

CivBase wrote: post #160
wefarrell wrote: post #144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

First we feared the godless communists having the bomb because they were not held to a higher moral authority. Now we fear the theocratic muslims because their fanaticism is stronger than their sense of self preservation. It turns out this is all propaganda, no state is keen on destroying the world, and it's entirely rational for a country under constant threat like Iran (or Israel) to want nuclear weapons.

> it's entirely rational for a country under constant threat like Iran (or Israel) to want nuclear weapons. No, it's really not. It's akin to citizens wanting to walk around with ARs in case they need to defend themselves. No, worse, because at least an AR wont annihilate everyone around you after you're already dead. The value in having nuclear weapons is the threat that you could spitefully take your opponents out…

Libya wanted nukes. They were convinced not to. Now see where they are and compare with North Korea. This is why Iran wants nukes and it is very logical.

Re: Israel may have destroyed Iranian centrifuges simply by cutting power

#173

Post by TheGuyWhoCodes »

whimsicalism wrote: post #151
TheGuyWhoCodes wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It doesn't have to be on a warhead but smuggled somehow. It would certainly be traced back to them so I don't think they will ever target America directly.

? Target anyone at all with a nuke and you are getting invaded by an international coalition at minimum and quite likely nuked yourself.

Maybe, maybe not. Once you have shown you have the capabilities it's a different story, but then again you don't have to directly do it, just leak it to your "friendly" neighborhood terrorist group and let them take the blame. Maybe Iran is a different story but what if a dirty bomb was made from India's or China's nuclear materials for example, would an international coalition invade them? I doubt it.

Re: Israel may have destroyed Iranian centrifuges simply by cutting power

#174

Post by mamon »

knowaveragejoe wrote: post #32
Daho0n wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If much of the world wants you dead (your words, not mine) then maybe it's time to look in a mirror. Edit: HN commenters are so thick. First of all GP says everyone hate Israel. So that must include you the reader of this comment. If you actually take that shit serious and then have a problem with my comment instead all I can say is that you should look in a mirror too. It's a fat lie. Not everyone hates Israel. Actu…

Elaborate on what you think they should see in the mirror.

If one person thinks you're an asshole they might simply be wrong about you. If everyone in the world thinks you're an asshole then you, almost by definiton, are one.

There's a reason why there's a separate word in most languages for "anti-semitism" but not for "anti-italianism" or "anti-brasilianism".

Re: Israel may have destroyed Iranian centrifuges simply by cutting power

#175

Post by hpcjoe »

cyberscientist wrote: post #112
hpcjoe wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I assume you mean "assassinations". Iran funds and supports groups who have declared, and continue to make war on Israel as a proxy for themselves doing it. They are happy to expend every single one of their proxy armies and munitions if they can avoid the direct consequences of action. The groups that Iran supports carry out assassinations. Kidnappings. Mass murder. Direct attacks on non-combatant populations, aka w…

I'm not defending iran.im just saying we build a narrative against one side. Look at your comment, everything you said about Iran usa, Britain and Israel does too. But you highlighted Iran's evil while we excuse "our own" side awful actions.

"your own side" is quite revealing.

There's a game siblings sometimes play. One hits another. The injured party responds in kind. The first, the aggressor, calls their parents and complains that the second hit the first and was the aggressor. The second is then punished by the parent for aggression.

This has been the rhetorical, and effectively actual history of the conflicts since prior to the founding of Israel. Iran was a "friend" until they ... changed direction ... in 1979.

Israel is defending itself, actively, against existential threats. If the act of defending itself and its people causes you to label it as evil, that's your business.

Iran is not defending itself against existential threats. It is actively on the offense along multiple fronts. Its activities directly and indirectly cause death of non-combatants. That is, IMO, a very basic and simple definition of evil. This isn't defense. This is offense. For the express purpose of achieving the goals they have enthusiastically repeated for decades.

If you don't think that is evil, that is your business as well.

Re: Israel may have destroyed Iranian centrifuges simply by cutting power

#176

Post by torginus »

monocasa wrote: post #6

This makes you wonder if we might see a resurgence in old school control systems without processors, and def no networks. The Manhattan project was able uranium purified to get a bomb working without PLCs and networks. All else being equal it's more expensive, but not compared to being unable to keep your network safe from attack. You need to reconfigure the line? Send eight techs down one by one to set new parameter…

I used to work at a small company that manufactured medical equipment. One of the products we made was a pick-and place robot that handled urine samples.

It needed a coordinated 3-axis motor servo motor control, which we initially planned to use PLCs for, however after looking around and seeing the price tag of the stuff that matched our required feature set, we decided to build our own. We were up and running within 2 months, and I can tell you, writing code in C for the control loops is infinitely preferable to whatever monstrosity PLCs can be programmed in. I'd say this is a much more complex scenario than running a single motor at a certain speed depending on some sensor readings.

Re: Israel may have destroyed Iranian centrifuges simply by cutting power

#177

Post by nitrogen »

monocasa wrote: post #149
heavenlyblue wrote: post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It takes only one buffer overflow within a fixed purpose control signal handler to convert any bus into a general purpose bus.

No buses, only fixed purpose control signals. It's pretty hard to buffer overflow if (read_gpio(Ignition_Enable_Pin)) {

But if that GPIO triggers an interrupt, you might be able to get the processor to do interesting things by oscillating the signal faster than the processor can disable interrupts and run the ISR.

Re: Israel may have destroyed Iranian centrifuges simply by cutting power

#178

Post by aborsy »

Frankly, Israel needs to stop waging these wars in the Middle East. Apart from moral issues, they impact everyone. The refugee crisis is affecting us Europeans. We paid the cost for US wars.

JCPA was working, except for a small group that benefit from its cancellation. Iran agreed to remove its uranium under strict checks and verifications. Why killing it?

Re: Israel may have destroyed Iranian centrifuges simply by cutting power

#179

Post by madengr »

avar wrote: post #23
dragontamer wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The Manhattan project was able uranium purified to get a bomb working without PLCs and networks. By enlisting thousands of young women to watch the knobs and dial buttons. https://outrider.org/nuclear-weapons/articles/women-who-buil... They didn't even know they were building the bomb. They just had to enter the room, dial knobs back-and-forth for 8-hours/day, and then go home. Today, that sort of stuff SHOULD be a…

The youth unemployment rate in Iran is ~25%, overall rate is 10%. They issue their own fiat currency, and their GDP per capita is comparable to Thailand and Botswana. So yes, they can probably afford to have a bunch of people tweak knobs in a factory all day.

Adding more people is a greater security risk.

Re: Israel may have destroyed Iranian centrifuges simply by cutting power

#180

Post by whimsicalism »

hoka-one-one wrote: post #166
whimsicalism wrote: post #164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are ethnic minorities extended the "right of return" in Israel? Last I checked this was not the case.

Yes, if they convert to Judaism. Seems reasonable, Judaism doesn't ban any ethnic minorities.

Sorry, what was this about "not being governed by religious law"?

> full rights for women, minorities, and LGBTQ

So not full rights for religious minorities. Moreover, conversion is quite difficult and the process is made much easier if you have a parent who is Jewish (which generally forms an ethnic group). Only recently were non-Orthodox conversions recognized for this purpose: https://www.nytimes.com/2021/03/01/world/middleeast/israel-j...

Also, if you are from Palestine or Iran, you are excluded from citizenship via https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Citizenship_and_Entry_into_Isr...

ie. specifically on the basis of your ethnicity &/or national origin.

I find it hard to take seriously claims of equal & full rights for minorities when those rights require converting to a different religion or being of a different ethnicity in order to apply to you.

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