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Apple changes Crimea map when viewed from Russia

bbc.co.uk

171–180 of 303 posts

Re: Apple changes Crimea map when viewed from Russia

#171

This happens pretty much everywhere with every online map. Kashmir, Taiwan, Western Sahara, etc. etc. Apple doing it for one country is not particularly news. The only major-league mapping site I know that doesn't do local alterations is OpenStreetMap, and that's because OSM's attitude is "you want the map to show something else? sure, download the raw data and host your own instance".

Yep, there's been some academic work like MapWatch (2016) [0] on tracking the differences in how different providers present different borders in different regions over time.

[0] https://dl.acm.org/citation.cfm?id=2883016

Re: Apple changes Crimea map when viewed from Russia

#172
post #154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What you're indirectly saying is: Apple should break the law in countries that don't follow western ideals. This is a slipppery slope. Do you really want companies to fight over what they think is morally right? ...because then get ready for Xiaomi sending the floor plan from your Roomba straight to the chinese government. ...or what if Telegram suddenly started banning gay users because that's obviously wrong and im…

But Apple is already doing that - they’re building their perception, at least in USA, as freedom of speech and privacy fighting company, with Tim leading the way sharing his personal experience being a gay man. Where is Tim’s aversion to oppression and discrimination when it comes to standing up to Russia and China? If Tim was an open gay Joe Schmo waking around in st Petersburg he would be considered a criminal. So…

I think you misunderstood. Yes, they're "fighting" for certain ideals - but only where it's legal to do so.

If the USA proposed a law that forced them to hand over all user data, they would of course try to fight it. But if it was passed, do you really think they would suddenly stop doing business in the USA because of their ideals?

Re: Apple changes Crimea map when viewed from Russia

#173
post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Does anyone believe in "change from the inside" any more? From a "change from the inside" perspective, Apple can make more of a positive difference in pushing forward their agenda for countries like Russia, by staying in the Russian market, complying with a few government demands, and thus offering a sub-optimal form of their products/services—but still a form that has nonzero privacy/democracy/etc.-enhancing effects…

I think Apple doesn't really provide anything that I consider democracy enhancing. Few big tech companies do that. I associate democracy with choice and Apple isn't really too active in that domain. As for the services their products provide, I think that is more in line with all alternatives. That said, Apple at least seems to have protected user data from government access. Let's see if that holds. But in practice…

> I associate democracy with choice and Apple isn't really too active in that domain.

I was using "democracy" here to refer specifically to political influence of a citizen (or citizenry in the aggregate) over a state. "Democracy-enhancing" thus means "enabling or easing participation in acts of democracy" or "protecting the individual from things that would prevent them from participating in acts of democracy" (where "acts of democracy" are things like votes, campaigns, debates, referendums, demonstrations, and any associated acts of evangelism/recruitment toward those activities — basically anything listed in the "Ways citizens can participate" list here: https://www.civiced.org/resources/curriculum/lesson-plans/45...)

Most communications technologies are democracy-enhancing, even when they are actively surveilled by a state actor, since there are always some democratic acts that the state either doesn't really care about, or doesn't know how to watch for. But, of course, non-surveillable communications technologies are more democracy-enhancing.

> But in practice government would have more difficulties to include backdoors in Android for example

Note that the Chinese intelligence apparatus need not actually put any backdoors into individual Android devices, nor put any backdoors into upstream Android as an OS. They just need to request that Chinese OEMs like Huawei backdoor their own Android distributions, and then let the state shoulder-surf the results; while also helping the OEMs out with funding for PR campaigns that encourage the use of domestic OEM brands over foreign OEM brands. The government doesn't even need any developers to do this; just money and strongly-worded letters!

Re: Apple changes Crimea map when viewed from Russia

#174
post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, yes - this deportation happened and is one of the many dark moments in USSR history. Glad you brought this up - difficult to write the entire history of the region on hn. The history of the Pontic Greeks and then later, Italian city states, in the Black Sea is really fascinating. This is a pretty decent English language history of the area: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Sea_(book) Also, I didn't know ab…

Molva (~rumors, «народная молва») was common name of folk language spoken at territory of (Kievan) Russia. Later it was replaced by official developed language, called yazyk ( tongue, «язык»), which was based on ancient dialect of South Slavic language, as spoken in Russian churches. However, leaders of folk movement, later known as Ukrainians, developed and enhanced folk language, which then was renamed into Ukraini…

Very interesting. Thank you / Дякую / Спасибо.

Re: Apple changes Crimea map when viewed from Russia

#175

This happens pretty much everywhere with every online map. Kashmir, Taiwan, Western Sahara, etc. etc. Apple doing it for one country is not particularly news. The only major-league mapping site I know that doesn't do local alterations is OpenStreetMap, and that's because OSM's attitude is "you want the map to show something else? sure, download the raw data and host your own instance".

What’s disputed in the Western Sahara?

Some land disputed betweens Morocco and independantist Polisario front.

Re: Apple changes Crimea map when viewed from Russia

#176
post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you Ukrainian? Have you been to Crimea? A language becoming official (which was only very recent) does not magically make everyone fluent. Sure, Crimeans probably all know some A2 level Ukrainian from media. But they are not fluent and are likely speaking Russian or Tartar at home.

I'm Ukrainian. I was in Crimea. I have aunt in Crimea. I had no problem with Ukrainian language in Crimea.

Ok. I might be wrong. Which part of of Crimea?

Re: Apple changes Crimea map when viewed from Russia

#177
post #148

Apple enjoys all the privileges of being based in a western liberal democracy, but it’s starting to feel like they don’t really believe in those values. All that guff about privacy, the environment, minority rights etc, yet when faced with real tyranny they will do literally anything in return for market access. The lesson is clear: don’t expect soft power alone to topple the autocrats of the 21st Century.

Show me a single corporation that has values beyond making a profit.

Show me a mammal who has values beyond continuing to oxidize food.

Survival is an overriding value for everyone, but acting in accordance with other values can be a part of how that's achieved--ideally corporations are rewarded with profitability when they act in accordance with society's values. How best to achieve this, though, is a matter of some disagreement.

Re: Apple changes Crimea map when viewed from Russia

#178
post #93
post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I expect Russia to continue doing these sorts of things while the world frets. I think the situation with Crimea is unique as there is a set of multiple historical, racial, political etc. etc. factors not present anywhere else. What else could Russia possibly annex without triggering major war and world mayhem?

Northern Georgia.

Missed that one. It is a mess in there. But said mess did already happen and I was talking about future. Russia had definitely taken advantage of the situation where 2 regions wanted to separate. The end outlook is not encouraging.

I am curious here about one thing here. Government leaders supposed to be smart people. Where did Saakashvili (Georgian president at the time) loose his last 2 brain cells before allowing military attack on stationed Russian peacekeepers. Try to imagine Syrian soldiers attacking US military and see what happens.

Re: Apple changes Crimea map when viewed from Russia

#179
post #146

> However, it uses the Russian spelling of Crimean place names on its maps in Russia, rather than the Ukrainian spelling. The vast majority of people in Crimea are Russian speakers (as well as being ethnically Russian). It's been that way since the Russian Empire conquered the peninsula from the Ottomans in 1783. In fact, there's nearly as many Tartar (descendents of Ottomans) speakers in Crimea than Ukrainian. Last…

> Also, the infrastructure has improved significantly since the Russian takeover (unfortunately Ukraine being poor, neglected the peninsula after the collapse of the USSR) so getting around is easier now. Ukraine, after Soviet Union crumbled was always under the foot of Russian Federation. It is the poorest performer of any country which became independent after Soviet occupation. It never managed to properly "wester…

Interesting and fair enough. Crimeans that I've spoken to are mostly happy with the annexation, but they have complained about the loss of purchasing power (Ruble is stronger than Hryvnia). So infrastructure is better, but their incomes have not adjusted to be in line with rest of Russia and things are more expensive than before.

Re: Apple changes Crimea map when viewed from Russia

#180

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What are the issues at play in northern India?

Kashmir has been disputed between India and Pakistan for several decades now.

Has anybody thought of asking the people of the disputed region which country they’d like to be a part of?
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