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IT Runs on Java 8

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Re: IT Runs on Java 8

#171

Post by Rebelgecko »

sunaurus wrote: post #124

>Java 8 is still the dominant development environment, according to the JVM ecosystem report of 2018. >If you think that’s bad... Why would I think that's bad? The replacement for Java 8 was just recently released, does anybody really expect the world to upgrade so quickly?

Seriously. The replacement is maybe 6 months old and breaks a lot of things— the Java code I work on doesn't work with Java 11. While we can (and at some point will) figure out why and fix it, there's other things to do in the meantime. And just migrating from Oracle JDK to OpenJDK has been enough of a pain in the ass.

Re: IT Runs on Java 8

#172

Post by eitland »

paulmd wrote: post #125
mfatica wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How does this compare to the .NET ecosystem?

C# is a better language. Java 8 started to catch up with some of the quality-of-live niceties, but Java has a lot of mistakes baked into the language and interfaces that can't be removed without potentially breaking a lot of stuff, which the consortium is not willing to do. C# and DotNet were designed with the wisdom gained from the early days of Java implementation and sidestepped a lot of these messes. Java has a s…

> C# is a better language.

Yep, as a seasoned Java developer I agree. There are times when I miss a part of the Java syntax but they are few and far between.

> Java has a substantially better ecosystem. The tooling is just miles ahead of what exists in the DotNet world.

Also true, although it is getting closer fast.

Possibly more important: they are both in another league compared most other languages. (Of the other languages/stacks I have some production experience with Angular/TypeScript is the only that I feel has anything close to the tooling support that C# and especially Java has.)

Re: IT Runs on Java 8

#173

Post by ses1984 »

dlandis wrote: post #164
pron wrote: post #85

The funny thing is that from a purely technological point of view, Java (even the 5-year-old Java 8 and certainly recent versions) is far ahead of most other stuff hyped on HN (as well as less hyped stuff). Virtually no other platform comes close to that combination of state-of-the-art optimizing compilers, state-of-the-art GCs, and low-overhead in-production profiling/monitoring/management. And much of the cutting-e…

> So Java is not only the safe choice for serious server-side software; it's also the bleeding edge. Sure for core Java (OpenJDK), but what the future of JEE licensing and development? Even non-"enterprise" apps typically make use of some JEE stuff like servlets and JDBC. Is it really the "safe" choice when, apparently, the trademark agreements have just fallen apart? https://headcrashing.wordpress.com/2019/05/03/neg…

Pardon my ignorance but what does any of that trademark stuff have to do with jdbc?

Re: IT Runs on Java 8

#174

Post by idlewords »

villgax wrote: post #10

Dunno what hole she is in but Excel, Sharepoint are all things that new age companies don't work on & rather is the tool of choice for all things by legacy ones still chugging along.

The hole she is in is called "long actual experience in our industry".

Re: IT Runs on Java 8

#176

Post by outworlder »

> And what Hacker News was teaching me was that the entire IT industry was working on brand-new Macbooks, using Go and Rust, Docker and CI, to build amazing products.

The problem is, some companies are using Go and Rust, K8s, Docker in brand new Macbooks. They are not the majority, but they are there. You may care about these things, or you may not. But if you do, working on a "normal" company is infuriating. I had to use CVS while using Git for my personal projects...

Now I am typing this on a Macbook (although not brand new) and deploying Go microservices in K8s.

The thing to keep in mind is that companies are schizophrenic. In another corner of the same company, there are people arguing against Lua for an embedded system because "no one uses it in production"...

So go find the corner that makes you happy.

Re: IT Runs on Java 8

#177

Post by seeekr »

sunaurus wrote: post #121
nunobrito wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We are moving to Java 8. There is a special place in my heart to hate the new shiny lambdas. Makes code too difficult for reading, nowhere compatible when needing to use Java 7 every now and then. With the article would just disagree on Sharepoint, would say Confluence has finally replaced that one.

I'm curious, do you really prefer anonymous classes over lambdas? To me, anonymous classes are much more annoying to read. Or are you just saying that lambdas are as bad as anonymous classes?

IntelliJ IDEA actually just collapses them into lambdas by default. And it also auto-generates them for you so you don't have to type them. At least that was the state of things a couple of years ago, can only have gotten even better since then.

Re: IT Runs on Java 8

#178

Post by ksec »

pron wrote: post #154
jptoto wrote: post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The licensing has gotten super onerous.

The licensing has gotten far better. First, Oracle has just open sourced the entire JDK for the first time ever, and second, instead of offering a mixed free/paid, open/proprietary JDK (with -XX:+UnlockCommercialFeatures flags), it now offers the JDK under either a completely free and open license (under the name OpenJDK) or a commercial license for Oracle support subscription customers (under the name Oracle JDK).

Thanks, that clear things up bit.

Re: IT Runs on Java 8

#179

Post by the_af »

outworlder wrote: post #168
peterkelly wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Despite its title, the article was not about Java 8.

You can try appending "in Go" or "in Tensorflow" to see if the title still makes sense.

The author was trying to be polite and avoid sensitive issues, but one prefix that also almost always works in HN titles is "In China".

You can have it all:

"In China, IT runs on Java 8 in Tensorflow"

The perfect HN title! :)

Re: IT Runs on Java 8

#180

Post by ksec »

pron wrote: post #142
ksec wrote: post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This. Technically there is nothing I don't like about JVM right now, everything that seems impossible 15 years ago is now solved. AOT used to be bag of hurt with GCJ ( I know I could use Excelsior, not sure if it was free in my time though ), but now even that will be an supported option from Graal. Java the languages still isn't pretty, but it has been much improved. OpenJDK is GPL and apart form the trademark ( ? )…

> I am just a little uneasy with Oracle lurking around, I just don't know what they are going to do next. What do you mean by "lurking"? Oracle is the company developing OpenJDK, and it will continue to do so. All our projects are done in the open, with lots of communication.

I do understand Oracle is paying the bill. As well as the team working on Graal and TruffleRuby. so I am grateful for that. Thank You.

>What do you mean by "lurking"?

Referring to Copywriting API a while ago and the JakartaEE problem which has blown up on my twitter feeds. I understand why Oracle is trying to charge money, and I am perfectly fine with that, I just don't like they are using Copywriting API as the tool. And whatever problem it is with JakartaEE this time around I don't have time to follow.

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