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IT Runs on Java 8

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Re: IT Runs on Java 8

#141

Post by wolf550e »

stingraycharles wrote: post #119
knowsmorsecode wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What?

I suspect that the parent is talking about the JVM's JIT, where it compiles java bytecode into machine instructions after loading the application. This is why the first few requests on a JVM are usually considerably slower than the rest. Parent is obviously exaggerating with the 5000x, and he could have made his point in a different way, but there's some truth to it.

5000 refers to number of times a method needs to be called before the JIT decides the method is "warm" and needs to be compiled by the expensive to run C2 compiler which produces good quality machine code.

If you're benchmarking java code and the method was not called enough times before you measure, you're measuring code compiled by C1 (or even interpreted).

The performance gap between Java and C is on the order of x2 to x5.

Re: IT Runs on Java 8

#142

Post by pron »

ksec wrote: post #140
pron wrote: post #85

The funny thing is that from a purely technological point of view, Java (even the 5-year-old Java 8 and certainly recent versions) is far ahead of most other stuff hyped on HN (as well as less hyped stuff). Virtually no other platform comes close to that combination of state-of-the-art optimizing compilers, state-of-the-art GCs, and low-overhead in-production profiling/monitoring/management. And much of the cutting-e…

This. Technically there is nothing I don't like about JVM right now, everything that seems impossible 15 years ago is now solved. AOT used to be bag of hurt with GCJ ( I know I could use Excelsior, not sure if it was free in my time though ), but now even that will be an supported option from Graal. Java the languages still isn't pretty, but it has been much improved. OpenJDK is GPL and apart form the trademark ( ? )…

> I am just a little uneasy with Oracle lurking around, I just don't know what they are going to do next.

What do you mean by "lurking"? Oracle is the company developing OpenJDK, and it will continue to do so. All our projects are done in the open, with lots of communication.

Re: IT Runs on Java 8

#144

Post by vijaybritto »

I was on the hype train for quite a while jumping between different systems and burning out a lot. It's mainly because I entered web dev when javascript was beginning to eat up the world. Its the only language I know and understand well. (learning Rust and dart now) Lots and lots of ideas and frameworks keep coming up. Now when i read stuff for the backend its pretty calm and steady. Especially in the java stack. I used to laugh at people writing java. I complained that JVM takes a lot of memory. But I didn't see that JVM still completed >98% of the requests whereas my Node app was completing only around 65% of them. The memory mattered in my laptop but not in the server.

Now we rapidly prototype features in Node and move them to java once the consumers like those features. Even though the stability of an application depends on the programmers, its a good decision to use well tested and stable stacks.

Re: IT Runs on Java 8

#145

Post by usrusr »

barrkel wrote: post #53
sanxiyn wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I disagree. Addition of generics in Java 5 was bigger.

I'd rather keep lambdas and live with runtime polymorphism, than keep parametric polymorphism and lose lambdas. Generics, in terms of scope, is a bigger feature, for sure. And generics make lambdas more usable. But the distance between generics and their alternative - manual casts throughout - is larger than the distance between lambdas and anonymous inner classes.

Lambdas on untyped streams? I think I'll pass...

Speaking of dark matter coding, story time: a spare time project of mine involves bringing an actual, pre-generics codebase into the not quite as distant past. That beast still has real, living users! Surprisingly, a frequent complaint is running out of heap memory, so they are happily sharing their magic -Xmx incantations with values that would have been outrageously high when the code was written.

Re: IT Runs on Java 8

#146

Post by jptoto »

pron wrote: post #142
ksec wrote: post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This. Technically there is nothing I don't like about JVM right now, everything that seems impossible 15 years ago is now solved. AOT used to be bag of hurt with GCJ ( I know I could use Excelsior, not sure if it was free in my time though ), but now even that will be an supported option from Graal. Java the languages still isn't pretty, but it has been much improved. OpenJDK is GPL and apart form the trademark ( ? )…

> I am just a little uneasy with Oracle lurking around, I just don't know what they are going to do next. What do you mean by "lurking"? Oracle is the company developing OpenJDK, and it will continue to do so. All our projects are done in the open, with lots of communication.

The licensing has gotten super onerous.

Re: IT Runs on Java 8

#147

Post by xxs »

phoe-krk wrote: post #72

Sure it runs on Java 8. Some companies prefer stable and battle-tested software and languages over whatever is currently The Hype™.

Java usually offer one of the easier paths to find decent developers.

Re: IT Runs on Java 8

#148

Post by ltr_ »

> I’ve finally come to realize that most businesss and developers simply don’t revolve around whatever’s trending on HN.

shocking.

but truth be told,HN have a share on my hate to any IT job in my country, and my past professional decisions.

Re: IT Runs on Java 8

#149

Post by forgottenpass »

mzkply wrote: post #44

The HN front page is similar to any community. For example, a car site's homepage will be listing the latest supercars, expensive turbos, rims, whatever... while most readers are driving a $30,000 Civic. The best & brightest in tech are working with the best tools on the biggest problems, and that's what gets talked about, regardless of what the mass is doing.

>The best & brightest in tech are working with the best tools on the biggest problems, and that's what gets talked about

We should be so lucky. Nobody knows who's the best, what the best tools are, or what the biggest problems are. We only know the ones that get written about.

Writers cover what's flashy, who's the best self-promoter, and what makes the most money.

Re: IT Runs on Java 8

#150

Post by aa2858 »

oaiey wrote: post #132
bsaul wrote: post #92

Fun story : i had to develop the same system for two different companies, one a startup with 3 employees (the founders) , the other a billion dollar business. Just a backend api & web interface, together with an iOS app displaying the content. I could use shiny new tech for the startup (which at the time was python on app engine and its nosql datastore, with a backbone.js framework), whereas the other one forced me t…

It is not the technology which is slowing down the enterprises. That is done by processes, humans and risk. You cannot stay up to date permanently, because that introduces risks all the time. Once you earn money, there are layers to protect the money stream. You can loose tons of money by not staying modern, that is true. But you can loose everything when you ignore a risk. The trick is to find a balance. And all of…

You nailed this and this is very thoughtful.
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