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Making Video Games Is Not a Dream Job

nytimes.com

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Re: Making Video Games Is Not a Dream Job

#171

Post by derefr »

CM30 wrote: post #97

> For many kids who grew up with controllers in their hands, being a game developer is a dream job, so when it comes to talent, supply is higher than demand This is basically the reason for low wages in quite a few 'passion' driven industries. If a job is something enough people want to do, then talent is cheap and plentiful and companies can provide low wages and poor conditions that for every person who quits, ten…

> the only practical solution is for people to stop taking on terrible jobs because of some sense of 'passion'

So the “practical” solution is to change human nature? That doesn’t sound right. It’d be like saying that the practical solution to human trafficking is for people to stop visiting prostitutes; or that the solution to gangs’ drug income is for people to stop buying drugs.

In all these cases, you can quash supply; or you can constrain and regulate the way that the supply supplies, so that it doesn’t hurt people in the process; but—even in the most totalitarian state you can imagine—you can’t quash demand. Humans gonna want what humans gonna want.

In this case, the demand is “the ability to express myself to a huge audience.” People are willing to pay to do that. Because of that, they see any job where they get to do it as a net positive, even if the job is horrible. Because, in essence, they’re taking the original trade they had in mind (paying to reach an audience) and then balancing out an increase in the troublesomeness of doing that, with a payment for dealing with that troublesomeness that moves the needle all the way from “paying for” to “being paid for.”

Re: Making Video Games Is Not a Dream Job

#172

Post by papermill »

I thought everyone knew this already. And its been true for decades. When I was a CS major, everyone told me not to go into game development because you worked the most for the least amount of pay.

Not sure why why this is so high up here. I'd think that the HN community would already know this by now. If not, there are plenty of game developer testimony all over social media and the internet.

Re: Making Video Games Is Not a Dream Job

#173

Post by bobthepanda »

ahelwer wrote: post #144
r_smart wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

|Unionisation may help By restricting the supply of talent, thus artificially driving up wages, but at the same time keeping a lot of people from being able to pursue their dream.

Unions improve compensation by increasing the share of the profits pie given (or returned, rather) to labor, not by putting a stranglehold on new hiring.

You also don’t need a union to put a stranglehold on labor supply.

See: doctors

Re: Making Video Games Is Not a Dream Job

#174

Post by jimcsharp »

lfcc wrote: post #143
hnarn wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I see a lot of anti-union talk on HN That's because most people on HN are from the U.S. where a century of propaganda has convinced most people not only that poor people are lazy, but by extension that unions are evil, corrupt and lazy organizations infiltrated by organized crime. While this propaganda has a minority basis in reality in some cases, as all propaganda will have because propaganda can't be 100% fantas…

I'm from Portugal (where we've had somewhat similar experiences to Spain with the mentality for unions). When I was young I believed they were good as it was what I was taught and fell in the socialist-leaning mentality of much of the country. Having started to learn about economics, entering the industry, and seeing the arguments many people make for unionization have definitely led to me to swing much harder to the…

Unions are just reverse corporations. They cannot be any more good or evil than a corporation.

Re: Making Video Games Is Not a Dream Job

#175

Post by CM30 »

DangitBobby wrote: post #160
luiscleto wrote: post #148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Unionisation may help, but the only practical solution is for people to stop taking on terrible jobs because of some sense of 'passion', and to go where their skills are appreciated/where they're treated better/fairly compensated This. Unionisation is basically an attempt to reject the reality that there isn't enough demand for all that labor to be valuable at/above market-average. Ultimately I don't think there is…

I think it's a difficult claim to make that there's no demand when they specifically state that unpaid overtime is the norm. Why would they need overtime work if there were enough workers?

Because it's technically cheaper to have less workers and to work them for longer hours than to have more workers working for less time. Especially when you're not paying them for overtime.

Re: Making Video Games Is Not a Dream Job

#176

Post by ctdonath »

azhenley wrote: post #8

It is a dream job if I’m my own boss.

Want to be? go for it.

Cost of entry for macOS/iOS/tvOS is ~$1000 for total basic development & distribution hard costs on par with AAA studios; to wit a refurbished MacBook Air, Xcode, and Developer registration gives objective core tools to go from blank project to worldwide distribution. (Detail, talent, and advertising extra.)

YMMV for other platforms.

Re: Making Video Games Is Not a Dream Job

#177

Post by shawabawa3 »

thecatspaw wrote: post #83
hannasanarion wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are plenty of countries where all employers are required to give certain notice, and you can't suddenly fire someone. It is outrageous that your ability to eat and pay rent can be taken away with zero notice in America.

That just means they have to pay you for some time after they fired you. You can still be fired in an instant and be escorted out the door, especially if you have/had access to critical systems

Actually, at least in the UK, you can't be fired without cause.

Normally you'll have to be told that you're underperforming, be put on a "performance improvement plan", and have to be given time to improve yourself, or demonstrate that you are performing well.

You can be made redundant for no reason, but you have to be warned the moment management are considering redundancies that your job is at risk, and you are able to make a case for how redundancies could be avoided, or how your position could be changed to fit into the new structure. If you are made redundant, you have to be paid extra (although it's a tiny amount and only after 2 years)

Re: Making Video Games Is Not a Dream Job

#178

Post by jtms »

gowld wrote: post #109
EliRivers wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

they need to realize that they have a unique and valuable skill set The competition to be a low-paid drone in game development is huge; significantly more than in non game dev. The games industry is powered by huge numbers of low-experience software engineers. They get paid in glamour and the thrill of being able to tell their friends they work in games. They could leave and go somewhere else for more money, but they…

People say that, but what's the glamour? Do you have friends in AAA gamedev? Do you think that's cool? Do their parents? Their little brothers? You know who is cool? the 2-3 people who designed and built Pac-Mac, or Legend of Zelda, or Braid, or Papers Please. Not the people making guns for Call of War 7 that's a clone of a dozen other AAA games.

Yeah I think it’s cool that extremely powerful game engines are available for free to developers. There are many a reason why EA and others are taking a big hit, but the swell of really good games being produced by those 2-3 person teams has to be a big part of it. I haven’t played anything that could be considered AAA in quite some time (anything from FROM software being a very strong exception - I love their work)

Re: Making Video Games Is Not a Dream Job

#179

Post by SmellyGeekBoy »

hannasanarion wrote: post #34
jfk13 wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In a civilised society, it would be illegal for an employer to behave like that. (Yes, I know, I'm imposing my view of what it would mean to be "civilised", and not everyone will agree.)

There are plenty of countries where all employers are required to give certain notice, and you can't suddenly fire someone. It is outrageous that your ability to eat and pay rent can be taken away with zero notice in America.

> It is outrageous that your ability to eat and pay rent can be taken away with zero notice in America.

Also your healthcare in most cases.

Re: Making Video Games Is Not a Dream Job

#180

Post by makecheck »

I resisted spending any time on game development for a long time because I knew deep down how games are consumed extremely quickly. You can spend tons of effort to build a utility app that might prove its value every day for years and years, and may never lose all value. You can spend tons of time and effort developing a game that may become boring to players in a matter of weeks or months and never be used again.

Ultimately I decided that game development is useful for building certain programming skills as a hobby, regardless of the “value curve” of the product. And if you expect nothing (i.e. you’re competing in a huge field of millions of games, nothing is special anymore), you can focus on what you’ve gained, which may be primarily the experience.

I emphasize the hobby part; it’s useful to try it but it’s extremely backwards economically. I would always advise “other” programming jobs, with game dev. on the side.

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