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Type 2 diabetes: NHS to offer 800-calorie diet treatment

bbc.com

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Re: Type 2 diabetes: NHS to offer 800-calorie diet treatment

#171

Post by cowpewter »

mattmanser wrote: post #168
cowpewter wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This diet sounds miserable. You'd be hungry all the time. I would also much rather eat low-carb (and I do, I am a T2 diabetic that eats a ketogenic diet). Which sounds more sustainable? Drinking 800 calories of milk and juice every day, or eating real food like steak and broccoli, or chicken with brussel sprouts, or bacon and eggs? I am losing weight and reducing my A1c eating about 1300 calories of real food each da…

A recent analysis posted here claimed that low carb, high animal protein/fat was the unhealthiest diet long term, resulting in a 4 year drop in life expectancy, compared to a 1 year drop with a high carb diet. Low carb looks to be dangerous for your body long term if you have too much meat. https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lanpub/article/PIIS2468-2... According to a recent documentary I saw on the BBC about this ve…

I eat reasonable portions of meat, not excessively large ones. Most of your calories on a ketogenic diet come from fat, not protein, both dietary fat and fat your body burns off if you're also losing weight at the same time.

I would also rather live 4 less years and be healthy til the end of my lifespan, than live 4 extra years post-foot-amputation and on dialysis because of complications from diabetes. My father was also a T2 diabetic, tried to follow the ADA recommended diet, but still wound up insulin-dependent and eventually on dialysis before his death. I do not plan to follow in his footsteps.

I feel better on this way of eating than I have at any point in my life. My body has never metabolized carbs well. When I was younger, I was reactive-hypoglycemic, meaning that eating too many carbs would actually cause my body to over-respond with insulin, causing my blood sugar to plummet. I blacked out multiple times in high school from low blood sugar. Eating carbs (other than green veggies of course) is not for me.

Re: Type 2 diabetes: NHS to offer 800-calorie diet treatment

#172

Post by garenp »

lj3 wrote: post #163
garenp wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nowadays I mostly just do OMAD (one-meal-a-day) or close to it (eating window is about 1-3 hours) as it's simpler. Initially some will power was needed to stop myself from snacking in the evenings, but as long as I make sure I have a fair amount of protein in that one meal, it never seems to happen now. Occasionally I'll do alternate-day if I feel 'stuffed' or had a big day of lots of calories (holidays, social event…

What do you eat most of the time? Meat and veggies?

Yeah - along with a lot of eggs, cheese, and nuts.

Re: Type 2 diabetes: NHS to offer 800-calorie diet treatment

#173

Post by voidbip »

In July I was 203 pounds which for a 5'6" frame, put me in the "obese" category. It was the highest weight I had ever been, and I felt I occupied more space than I should in the world ( not in a good way ). I follow a youtuber on Indian cooking and for whatever reason this woman mentioned how she recently started eating in a more "Keto" way. This woman is thin as a rake. She mentioned she was doing this for mental clarity. On a whim, I decided to try it. I literally threw the little debbie box I had my hand in, in the garbage that day. Today, I am 166 pounds, still "overweight" but this is the most amount of weight I have ever lost. I feel so much better and healthier, and its true about the mental clarity. My unsubstantiated hypothesis is that it takes away the emotional swings insulin give you. I eat till I am full. Honestly. There is not a day that I "think" about what I am eating other than keeping sugar and carbs out my month. I could not be happier. I am a 38 yo technology professional, and I imagine many others here are similar. I have nothing to sell. I just want to make people aware of a lifestyle that may help many of us who sit all day for a living.

Re: Type 2 diabetes: NHS to offer 800-calorie diet treatment

#174

Post by quotemstr »

SketchySeaBeast wrote: post #162
quotemstr wrote: post #154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nevertheless, telling people they should eat better and exercise more does not convince them to do these things. The approach you're advocating does not work. What is your alternative? More of the same?

And throwing pills at it doesn't seem to help either - we've had weight loss pills for decades, unless THIS round is going to work.

Many of the most effective medications were banned due to medical risks --- for example, DNP. Efficacy isn't in doubt here; safety is. IMHO, given that all other public health interventions have failed, we should relax the safety constraints on these existing medications and mitigate the risks however we can. Demanding perfection in drug development has left us with nothing, and something is better than nothing.

Re: Type 2 diabetes: NHS to offer 800-calorie diet treatment

#175

Post by ak39 »

matt4077 wrote: post #141
ak39 wrote: post #80

I am not a doctor. This is what I have learned so far (there are no references here - sorry, I will need to dig up the material to substantiate this if you ask): The upshot: Managing diet is not sufficient (for type 2) remission. The damage is at cellular level. That damage needs to be reversed. Therefore muscles need to be rebuilt. Even for the over 60 years! The thinking: Diabetes Type 2 is the end point of years o…

Yeah... Also get a lawyer, quit Facebook, and start dressing for the job you want!

I don't quite understand.

Re: Type 2 diabetes: NHS to offer 800-calorie diet treatment

#176

Post by SketchySeaBeast »

quotemstr wrote: post #174
SketchySeaBeast wrote: post #162

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And throwing pills at it doesn't seem to help either - we've had weight loss pills for decades, unless THIS round is going to work.

Many of the most effective medications were banned due to medical risks --- for example, DNP. Efficacy isn't in doubt here; safety is. IMHO, given that all other public health interventions have failed, we should relax the safety constraints on these existing medications and mitigate the risks however we can. Demanding perfection in drug development has left us with nothing, and something is better than nothing.

"Acute oral exposure to DNP has resulted in increased basal metabolic rate, nausea, vomiting, sweating, dizziness, headache, and loss of weight. Chronic oral exposure to DNP can lead to the formation of cataracts and skin lesions and has caused effects on the bone marrow, central nervous system, and cardiovascular system.

...

Case reports have shown that an acute administration of 20–50 mg per kilogram of body weight in humans can be lethal. The lowest published fatal ingested dose is 4.3 mg/kg. Concerns about dangerous side-effects and rapidly developing cataracts resulted in DNP being discontinued in the United States by the end of 1938. DNP, however, continues to be used by some bodybuilders and athletes to rapidly lose body fat. Fatal overdoses include cases of accidental exposure, suicide, and excessive intentional exposure (overdose). The substance's use as a dieting aid has also led to a number of accidental fatalities."[1]

I would argue that's an entirely unsafe medication. That's not a drug that's short of perfection, it seems to be the sort of medication that will solve the obesity crises by actively killing people instead.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2,4-Dinitrophenol

Re: Type 2 diabetes: NHS to offer 800-calorie diet treatment

#177

Post by cowpewter »

wahern wrote: post #169
cowpewter wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This diet sounds miserable. You'd be hungry all the time. I would also much rather eat low-carb (and I do, I am a T2 diabetic that eats a ketogenic diet). Which sounds more sustainable? Drinking 800 calories of milk and juice every day, or eating real food like steak and broccoli, or chicken with brussel sprouts, or bacon and eggs? I am losing weight and reducing my A1c eating about 1300 calories of real food each da…

> This diet sounds miserable. You'd be hungry all the time. I would also much rather eat low-carb (and I do, I am a T2 diabetic that eats a ketogenic diet). Not eating anything, and only eating proteins and fats, are both difficult for me. And simply abstaining is actually easier. When I consume anything I begin craving not only carbs, but craving the stimulation of eating, period. I think its finally uncontroversial…

True, I don't disagree. Keto is just the easiest way I've found to eat at a caloric deficit without feeling deprived, hangry, or succumbing to cravings and eating half a cake in one sitting.

Once you get past the first couple weeks, carb cravings fade, and it's not nearly as difficult. It's just far easier for me to say no entirely to carbs than for me to eat them in moderation, much like it's a bad idea for an alcoholic to try to have "just one" beer.

Re: Type 2 diabetes: NHS to offer 800-calorie diet treatment

#178

Post by GordonS »

ryanwaggoner wrote: post #113
GordonS wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's going to be extremely difficult to confirm to 800 calories consisting almost entirely of carbs - very few people are going to succeed with this.

Neither of those consist almost entirely of carbs.

Gah, you're right, I read it on mobile and missed the protein value.

Then it's not quite as bad as I thought, but fat is still much more filling than protein:

fat > protein > carbs

Re: Type 2 diabetes: NHS to offer 800-calorie diet treatment

#179

Post by noarchy »

emersonrsantos wrote: post #35

When people will realize that carbs are the only non-essential macronutrient? The sports community (especially bodybuilding) knows that for decades. If an athlete says to me that a thing he does to his body work 95% of the time, I would consider to try it, and already did, some things against over-the-counter conventional medicine like this no-carb diet.

>The sports community (especially bodybuilding) knows that for decades.

While true, I would't say that everything bodybuilders are doing is worth following. Many pros do things that are extremely unhealthy. It isn't just the abuse of anabolics, but also insulin - which is relevant to what we're discussing here. There are bodybuilders with type 2 diabetes due to their unhealthy habits while trying to get bigger.

Re: Type 2 diabetes: NHS to offer 800-calorie diet treatment

#180

Post by matt4077 »

ak39 wrote: post #175
matt4077 wrote: post #141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah... Also get a lawyer, quit Facebook, and start dressing for the job you want!

I don't quite understand.

It's a joke based on the perception of crackpotishhness I got from OP's advice.
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