Live data from Hacker News

Type 2 diabetes: NHS to offer 800-calorie diet treatment

bbc.com

161–170 of 208 posts

Re: Type 2 diabetes: NHS to offer 800-calorie diet treatment

#161

When people will realize that carbs are the only non-essential macronutrient? The sports community (especially bodybuilding) knows that for decades. If an athlete says to me that a thing he does to his body work 95% of the time, I would consider to try it, and already did, some things against over-the-counter conventional medicine like this no-carb diet.

I just want to second what you said. I started bodybuilding around 2000 and an old-school way to manage your insulin response is to separate your protein, fat and carbs into individual meals (and especially eat a high protein, high carb meal after working out).

That may have been a bit of a fad though. The single most important rule that I know of is to never mix an animal protein meal and sugar, because that creates triglycerides which harden your blood vessels. This single rule is why fast food is so bad. Cheeseburgers are fine, but add fries and a pop and you just blew it.

As I've gotten older, I've noticed that my need for carbs has diminished greatly. As a teenager, I frequently ate a bag of gummy worms and a 2 liter bottle of pop on weekends. That changed to a case of beer in college. Either of those sound untenable today though.

The single easiest bit of advice I could give someone to lose fat is to stop eating all white fluffies and all sugar. So eat peas, salads etc with each meal instead of corn/bread/potatoes. Then pump iron at least 3 times a week so your body is in a constant rebuilding mode.

You don't really need to watch your fat intake like they recommended 20 years ago either. Always opt for natural fats like avocado, peanut or almond butter and regular butter because you need those to rebuild your connective tissue.

The big secret that nobody ever tells young people is that bodybuilding is all about eating/exercising in ways that elevate your hormones, then strengthening your connective tissue. If you do those things, then muscle and endurance come automatically. If you don't do them, you'll always be emaciated and will eventually get injured.

Re: Type 2 diabetes: NHS to offer 800-calorie diet treatment

#162

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You can't say "X doesn't work" when X does, in fact, work, and then expect people to take you seriously. > You're adopting a moralizing stance here, one that says that gain without pain is illegitimate. No, I'm saying that a pill won't solve the root problem. You make people skinny with a pill, you just end up with unhealthy, malnourished skinny people who insulin is all out of wack and who will still get heart att…

Nevertheless, telling people they should eat better and exercise more does not convince them to do these things. The approach you're advocating does not work. What is your alternative? More of the same?

And throwing pills at it doesn't seem to help either - we've had weight loss pills for decades, unless THIS round is going to work.

Re: Type 2 diabetes: NHS to offer 800-calorie diet treatment

#163
post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Congrats! What fasting method do you currently use, or do you switch between the ones listed?

Nowadays I mostly just do OMAD (one-meal-a-day) or close to it (eating window is about 1-3 hours) as it's simpler. Initially some will power was needed to stop myself from snacking in the evenings, but as long as I make sure I have a fair amount of protein in that one meal, it never seems to happen now. Occasionally I'll do alternate-day if I feel 'stuffed' or had a big day of lots of calories (holidays, social event…

What do you eat most of the time? Meat and veggies?

Re: Type 2 diabetes: NHS to offer 800-calorie diet treatment

#164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Congrats! What fasting method do you currently use, or do you switch between the ones listed?

I'm also interested (about to start my own diet but I hate non-varied diets). Any fasting method worked better than others?

As far as I can tell they all work (N=1 and all that), so I'd say that whatever you find easier to actually do is what you should do - just keep it up as often as you can over time.

If you wanna get a little geeky about it like I was, could consider buying a Precision Xtra to measure your glucose and ketone levels. For me this was helpful because I could see changes in the numbers after changing my eating habits. Had I not seen that, I would have only my scale to see body weight, and would've just looked at that and thought "looks like nothing changed, maybe this isn't working / doing anything at all." This also allowed me to "gamify" the whole process a bit ("I wonder how low I can get these numbers to go? how long I can stay there?" ... etc).

Re: Type 2 diabetes: NHS to offer 800-calorie diet treatment

#165
post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Dr. Michael Greger, Dr. McDoughall are my heros. Carbs and starch are not the problem, animal fats and proteins are. Whole food plant based diet are the best

Greger's "How Not To Die: The Role of Diet in Preventing, Arresting, and Reversing Our Top 15 Killers" has lots of data while remaining quite entertaining: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lXXXygDRyBU&t=2m11s

A 3-minute video of Dr. Gregor on diabetes: https://nutritionfacts.org/video/how-not-to-die-from-diabete...

For more information, search the nutritionfacts.org site for "diabetes".

The whole-food plant-based diet is the healthiest diet for humans.

Re: Type 2 diabetes: NHS to offer 800-calorie diet treatment

#166
post #92

About 3 years ago (late 2015 now) I was quite overweight, had a knee injury that limited my mobility (stairs mostly) and had a fasting glucose and post-meal readings that indicated I was nearly pre-diabetic (T2). So, I cut out out all sugary drinks, refined carbs, late night eating (!!) and tried various intermittent fasting / time restricted feeding techniques (5:2, alternate day, one-meal-a-day) and after about 3.5…

I lost at least that much weight after cutting the sugar and refined carbs out of my diet, without any fasting or increase in physical activity.

I did take up cooking my food from scratch as a hobby, so I was avoiding processed foods and eating out as well.

Re: Type 2 diabetes: NHS to offer 800-calorie diet treatment

#167

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I'm now down well over 60+lbs without having put in hardly any effort to exercise (occasional walking) - pretty stunning to me. Losing weight despite not exercising isn't surprising. Exercise, even intense cardio, burns far fewer calories than most people think. I'm about 240 lbs, 5'8", 36 years old, and according to this calculator [0], if I ran a 5k at a fast-paced 10 mph (6 minute mile), I'd only burn about 250…

Most exercise based weight loss isn't about the actual exercise it's about the changes the intense exercise makes to your body that causes you to burn more calories while resting. Exercise often tunes your body to burn calories at a higher rate as you gain muscle and / or increase muscle health which requires more energy to support even while resting. So while you don't NEED exercise to lose weight it certainly is a…

Some recent research contradicts those ideas.

Contestants on an extreme weight loss television reality show saw their resting metabolism drop after a rigorous program of exercise.

>The group as a whole on average burned 2,607 calories per day at rest before the competition, which dropped to about 2,000 calories per day at the end.

Six years later, calorie burning had slowed further to 1,900 per day, as reported in the journal Obesity.

https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/6-years-after-the...

Another recent study showed that diet effected metabolism.

>a large new study published on Wednesday in the journal BMJ found that overweight adults who cut carbohydrates from their diets and replaced them with fat sharply increased their metabolisms.

After five months on the diet, their bodies burned roughly 250 calories more per day than people who ate a high-carb, low-fat diet

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/11/14/well/eat/how-a-low-carb-d...

Re: Type 2 diabetes: NHS to offer 800-calorie diet treatment

#168

The 800 calories they are eating doesn't seem terribly healthy: "patients were asked to follow either a ‘home-made’ milk- and fruit-juice-based diet (811 kcal/day, 64 g protein, 132 g carbohydrate, 6 g fat) with a multivitamin/mineral supplement (Forceval® [Alliance]), or a micronutrient-replete commercial LELD (832 kcal/day, 87 g protein, 120 g carbohydrate, 12 g fat). I imagine these people are probably staving...…

This diet sounds miserable. You'd be hungry all the time. I would also much rather eat low-carb (and I do, I am a T2 diabetic that eats a ketogenic diet). Which sounds more sustainable? Drinking 800 calories of milk and juice every day, or eating real food like steak and broccoli, or chicken with brussel sprouts, or bacon and eggs? I am losing weight and reducing my A1c eating about 1300 calories of real food each da…

A recent analysis posted here claimed that low carb, high animal protein/fat was the unhealthiest diet long term, resulting in a 4 year drop in life expectancy, compared to a 1 year drop with a high carb diet.

Low carb looks to be dangerous for your body long term if you have too much meat.

https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lanpub/article/PIIS2468-2...

According to a recent documentary I saw on the BBC about this very diet, the point of the 800 diet is to lose weight asap and then introduce food back in gradually over 3 weeks (I think it was restoring one meal time a week, dinner, lunch, breakfast), in a controlled manner to teach you better food habits.

The documentary was focused on 4 normal people who had health problems due to weight, they all were trying this diet to see if it would help. One of them had just developed type 2. Wouldn't be surprised if that programme paved the way for this (it was on in June).

https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b0b53xqs

Re: Type 2 diabetes: NHS to offer 800-calorie diet treatment

#169

The 800 calories they are eating doesn't seem terribly healthy: "patients were asked to follow either a ‘home-made’ milk- and fruit-juice-based diet (811 kcal/day, 64 g protein, 132 g carbohydrate, 6 g fat) with a multivitamin/mineral supplement (Forceval® [Alliance]), or a micronutrient-replete commercial LELD (832 kcal/day, 87 g protein, 120 g carbohydrate, 12 g fat). I imagine these people are probably staving...…

This diet sounds miserable. You'd be hungry all the time. I would also much rather eat low-carb (and I do, I am a T2 diabetic that eats a ketogenic diet). Which sounds more sustainable? Drinking 800 calories of milk and juice every day, or eating real food like steak and broccoli, or chicken with brussel sprouts, or bacon and eggs? I am losing weight and reducing my A1c eating about 1300 calories of real food each da…

> This diet sounds miserable. You'd be hungry all the time. I would also much rather eat low-carb (and I do, I am a T2 diabetic that eats a ketogenic diet).

Not eating anything, and only eating proteins and fats, are both difficult for me. And simply abstaining is actually easier. When I consume anything I begin craving not only carbs, but craving the stimulation of eating, period.

I think its finally uncontroversial to say that not all calories are the same. But eating is more than just the metabolic process; like smoking it's about the physical habits and stimulation. In that way eating chips is not much different than eating pork rinds, and for some people that's what matters most.

Remember the Master Cleanser and juice fast fads? People consuming nothing but raw sugar for days, weeks, and even months on-end derived similar benefits--weight loss, improved insulin sensitivity, etc. And for some people it was really easy because you could sip on your drink constantly throughout the day, which was in an important way the antithesis of abstinence. Not all calories are the same, but it's still the case that fewer calories are better. Just do whatever it takes to get you to fewer calories.

I'm not trying to equivocate diets--vitamins, minerals, and fiber still matter. But, again, calorie count is ultimately the most important metric. How you manage it is largely a matter of your personal tastes and lifestyle. Few people can manage a perfect diet, but there's a least bad diet for everyone, and they're often wildly different. And that's basically what the expert stated in the article--the powdered diet isn't for everybody, but it was important to begin offering alternatives to the "balanced diet" recommendations.

Re: Type 2 diabetes: NHS to offer 800-calorie diet treatment

#170
post #92

About 3 years ago (late 2015 now) I was quite overweight, had a knee injury that limited my mobility (stairs mostly) and had a fasting glucose and post-meal readings that indicated I was nearly pre-diabetic (T2). So, I cut out out all sugary drinks, refined carbs, late night eating (!!) and tried various intermittent fasting / time restricted feeding techniques (5:2, alternate day, one-meal-a-day) and after about 3.5…

I lost at least that much weight after cutting the sugar and refined carbs out of my diet, without any fasting or increase in physical activity. I did take up cooking my food from scratch as a hobby, so I was avoiding processed foods and eating out as well.

It's ridiculous just how terrible refined carbohydrates are for people. There are countless accounts of people losing weight and getting healthier by simply reducing refined sugars in their diet. It's surprising that this isn't common knowledge yet, although I guess we're fighting Big Sugar here.

I field countless questions about diet on a regular basis, and honestly the #1 tip isn't about calorie reduction or low carb or any gimmicks... it just comes down to "start cooking your own food, from real ingredients". Buy fresh meat and produce and go from there. Weight loss and health will come naturally, because real food is far more satiating than the calorie-and-sugar-dense snacks the western world is used to eating.

Post reply on HN