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Type 2 diabetes: NHS to offer 800-calorie diet treatment

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Re: Type 2 diabetes: NHS to offer 800-calorie diet treatment

#141

Post by matt4077 »

ak39 wrote: post #80

I am not a doctor. This is what I have learned so far (there are no references here - sorry, I will need to dig up the material to substantiate this if you ask): The upshot: Managing diet is not sufficient (for type 2) remission. The damage is at cellular level. That damage needs to be reversed. Therefore muscles need to be rebuilt. Even for the over 60 years! The thinking: Diabetes Type 2 is the end point of years o…

Yeah... Also get a lawyer, quit Facebook, and start dressing for the job you want!

Re: Type 2 diabetes: NHS to offer 800-calorie diet treatment

#142

Post by Sohcahtoa82 »

garenp wrote: post #92

About 3 years ago (late 2015 now) I was quite overweight, had a knee injury that limited my mobility (stairs mostly) and had a fasting glucose and post-meal readings that indicated I was nearly pre-diabetic (T2). So, I cut out out all sugary drinks, refined carbs, late night eating (!!) and tried various intermittent fasting / time restricted feeding techniques (5:2, alternate day, one-meal-a-day) and after about 3.5…

> I'm now down well over 60+lbs without having put in hardly any effort to exercise (occasional walking) - pretty stunning to me.

Losing weight despite not exercising isn't surprising. Exercise, even intense cardio, burns far fewer calories than most people think. I'm about 240 lbs, 5'8", 36 years old, and according to this calculator [0], if I ran a 5k at a fast-paced 10 mph (6 minute mile), I'd only burn about 250 calories. That wouldn't even be enough to burn the calories in the energy drink I might drink before it!

Great work on the weight loss. I was 255 lbs at the beginning of the year and switched out my sugary sodas for unsweetened tea or occasionally a diet soda and lost 15 lbs in 4 months. I plateaued because I haven't changed much else.

[0] https://www.freedieting.com/calories-burned

Re: Type 2 diabetes: NHS to offer 800-calorie diet treatment

#143

Post by raverbashing »

virtuallynathan wrote: post #56

The 800 calories they are eating doesn't seem terribly healthy: "patients were asked to follow either a ‘home-made’ milk- and fruit-juice-based diet (811 kcal/day, 64 g protein, 132 g carbohydrate, 6 g fat) with a multivitamin/mineral supplement (Forceval® [Alliance]), or a micronutrient-replete commercial LELD (832 kcal/day, 87 g protein, 120 g carbohydrate, 12 g fat). I imagine these people are probably staving...…

I'm betting that diet was vetted by a qualified dietitian/nutrition specialist.

Re: Type 2 diabetes: NHS to offer 800-calorie diet treatment

#144

Post by jumanchiss »

PerfectElement wrote: post #68
acangiano wrote: post #51

You absolutely don’t need such caloric restriction to revert diabetes. All it takes is a very low carb or keto diet. Even without exercise.

Or certain types of plant-based diets[1][2][3]. 1. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5466941/ 2. https://www.omicsonline.org/open-access/diabetes-reversal-by... 3. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20425575

1. Vegan doctors Bernstein AM, Esselstyn, Barnard ND et al. (and of course the WHO) cherry-pick studies that support their theory.

2. 3-days study with only 55 patients

3. Questionable observational (selection bias) studies and more Neal D. Barnard.

Re: Type 2 diabetes: NHS to offer 800-calorie diet treatment

#145

Post by nradov »

msiyer wrote: post #110

My mother suffered Type-2 diabetes for almost 20 years. I put her on an extremely strict raw food diet three months ago and stopped injecting insulin. Her fasting blood sugar level is now in the 90-110 mg/dL range. I now give her some steamed potatoes also. I too follow the same diet to give her company. Elimination of oil, sugar and dairy has helped, I believe. She is a vegetarian, so flesh was never in the picture.…

I'm glad your mother is improving, but there's no real evidence that raw vegetables are better for blood sugar levels than cooked vegetables.

Re: Type 2 diabetes: NHS to offer 800-calorie diet treatment

#146

Post by SketchySeaBeast »

tacon wrote: post #131
SketchySeaBeast wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> When you’re weighing yourself every day you need to understand that you’re creating a weekly/monthly average. What you ate yesterday isn’t going to show up on the scales the next day. If you ran around the park yesterday, don’t expect to have lost weight today. I only weighed myself once a week for this reason. Every day can be demoralizing if you have a bloat day, but once a week gives enough to have a pretty regu…

I think daily weighing is important because it is hundreds of daily decisions to not eat that need to be made. Our current society makes food available at all times, and daily weighing is one part in actually thinking about our body and being mindful for at least twenty or thirty seconds each day. With the ridiculous calorie density of modern processed foods, a few minutes of mindless eating can add an enormous calor…

That's fair, if that needs to happen. I found my caloric considerations where my tracking - I built a spreadsheet where I input values so I could track my daily allotment as I ate. I always tracked it before I ate it.

I worry that daily tracking could be discouraging or introduce maldaptive behaviour - you went up a lbs since yesterday, but that's because your morning poop wasn't as productive as it usually is, and now you feel like you need to go more extreme to make up for it the rest of the day.

Re: Type 2 diabetes: NHS to offer 800-calorie diet treatment

#147

Post by overgard »

chosenbreed wrote: post #12
SketchySeaBeast wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And that's why weight loss techniques need to be treated like a new lifestyle, instead of a goal you hit and then finish. I lost 60 lbs a couple of years ago and found that 20 of those had recently crept back on, so I went on another shorter diet to get myself back on track. It's totally doable. You have to be aware and keep correcting.

> And that's why weight loss techniques need to be treated like a new lifestyle, instead of a goal you hit and then finish. I lost 60 lbs a couple of years ago ... Firstly, fantastic achievement. I'm curious as to what motivated you enough to put in the effort (I'm assuming it required effort). Secondly, I wonder if the speed/drastic nature of the weight-loss can be counter-productive. When you think about people don…

Not a doctor, and this is just anecdotal, but I lost 60 pounds in 3 months, a couple years ago (6'4" -- went from 260lbs to 200). So that was about 0.6lbs a day. (I think that's actually on the low range of metabolism -- some people can do more like 1-2lbs a day fasting).

Honestly, there were no side effects other than my back problems went away, I stopped snoring, and I felt better. Even with fasting, I just think your body has enough time to catch up when it's just a pound a day or whatnot. (Btw, you know what the world record for fasting is? 382 days. I'm not recommending that, I like food, but, as long as you get enough nutrients not to get something like scurvy and you consult with a doctor the human body is a lot more adaptable than people realize)

Re: Type 2 diabetes: NHS to offer 800-calorie diet treatment

#148

Post by surge »

mateuszf wrote: post #130
GFischer wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm also interested (about to start my own diet but I hate non-varied diets). Any fasting method worked better than others?

I recommend this book - https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1628600012/ref=dbs_a_def_r... it's written by a doctor specializing in applying fasting.

He also has several talks and interviews on YouTube worth watching as well. I believe his book, The Obesity Code, is also a good read.

He treats a lot of diabetic patients. I've integrated his stuff into my keto diet and lost a ton of weight.

Re: Type 2 diabetes: NHS to offer 800-calorie diet treatment

#149

Post by surge »

virtuallynathan wrote: post #56

The 800 calories they are eating doesn't seem terribly healthy: "patients were asked to follow either a ‘home-made’ milk- and fruit-juice-based diet (811 kcal/day, 64 g protein, 132 g carbohydrate, 6 g fat) with a multivitamin/mineral supplement (Forceval® [Alliance]), or a micronutrient-replete commercial LELD (832 kcal/day, 87 g protein, 120 g carbohydrate, 12 g fat). I imagine these people are probably staving...…

Hasn't every study prior said fasting (especially combined with low carb diet in between) is far better than low calorie, because your body makes different adjustments to lack of food rather than some food and you actually end up worse on a low calorie diet because your body isn't getting the full amount of nutrients and calories it wants/needs but doesn't make the adjustments it'll make for brief periods of lack of food.

Re: Type 2 diabetes: NHS to offer 800-calorie diet treatment

#150

Post by jaegerpicker »

Sohcahtoa82 wrote: post #142
garenp wrote: post #92

About 3 years ago (late 2015 now) I was quite overweight, had a knee injury that limited my mobility (stairs mostly) and had a fasting glucose and post-meal readings that indicated I was nearly pre-diabetic (T2). So, I cut out out all sugary drinks, refined carbs, late night eating (!!) and tried various intermittent fasting / time restricted feeding techniques (5:2, alternate day, one-meal-a-day) and after about 3.5…

> I'm now down well over 60+lbs without having put in hardly any effort to exercise (occasional walking) - pretty stunning to me. Losing weight despite not exercising isn't surprising. Exercise, even intense cardio, burns far fewer calories than most people think. I'm about 240 lbs, 5'8", 36 years old, and according to this calculator [0], if I ran a 5k at a fast-paced 10 mph (6 minute mile), I'd only burn about 250…

Most exercise based weight loss isn't about the actual exercise it's about the changes the intense exercise makes to your body that causes you to burn more calories while resting. Exercise often tunes your body to burn calories at a higher rate as you gain muscle and / or increase muscle health which requires more energy to support even while resting. So while you don't NEED exercise to lose weight it certainly is a super important part of weight lose for most people.
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