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Live display of CO2 emitted to produce electricity in European countries

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Re: Live display of CO2 emitted to produce electricity in European countries

#171

Post by hnusername »

renaudg wrote: post #170
hnusername wrote: post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Polish government is not right-wing. There may be right wing of it, but it is not right wing per se. Right wing of what? See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sanation for a better clue about what current polish government may aspire to be like. It may have some right wing parts of what is above all big centrist coalition. Another issue is. How is this government blocking development that could hurt coal industry any dif…

>Carbon dioxide (chemical formula CO2) is a colorless and odorless gas that is vital to life on Earth. Paint Poland and Estonia green. Green as in Greenhouse. Painting it black may suggest some form of blame for some imaginary "pollution" which i hope was not the point of the authors of the site. Ever heard of global warming ?

Ever heard of benefits greenhouse effect or photosynthesis. Come on get rid of CO2. Because of course it is the root of all evil. And by reference Poland is the root of all evil too. We even dare to still produce coal. Not as much as Germany though.

But of course we are painted black on this site.

Even if..

http://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/tgm/table.do?tab=table&plugin=1...

At least it will not crash your browser.

Edit: And of course thanks for all the downvotes. It really just emphasize the level of discussion and tasty bias here. And thanks for bringing up the constitutional court topic here and upvoting it. Which of course has nothing to do with the discussion. Good job.

Re: Live display of CO2 emitted to produce electricity in European countries

#172

Post by sdornan »

hnusername wrote: post #134
mixedbit wrote: post #115

Polish right-wing government is blocking any development that could hurt coal industry. They passed the law that significantly constrains where windmills can be located. They also hindered development of solar by reverting the law that allowed individual owners of solar panels to be paid for the overproduced electricity.

Polish government is not right-wing. There may be right wing of it, but it is not right wing per se. Right wing of what? See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sanation for a better clue about what current polish government may aspire to be like. It may have some right wing parts of what is above all big centrist coalition. Another issue is. How is this government blocking development that could hurt coal industry any dif…

I didn't expect to find a climate change denier in HN comments.

Re: Live display of CO2 emitted to produce electricity in European countries

#173

Post by hnusername »

sdornan wrote: post #172
hnusername wrote: post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Polish government is not right-wing. There may be right wing of it, but it is not right wing per se. Right wing of what? See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sanation for a better clue about what current polish government may aspire to be like. It may have some right wing parts of what is above all big centrist coalition. Another issue is. How is this government blocking development that could hurt coal industry any dif…

I didn't expect to find a climate change denier in HN comments.

Surprise Surprise, Open Society. But wait,who denies climate change ? This wikipedia quote is not even about climate change. Is it ?

Re: Live display of CO2 emitted to produce electricity in European countries

#174

Post by dbdr »

masklinn wrote: post #102
wiuhilfhuegihuf wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

they mean the cost of the nuclear plants (construction, decommissioning, waste-storage and security) not the price of the electricity

That's nonsensical, the cost of the nuclear plant is capital investment which is included in the price of the electricity. If the country needed it due to "the cost of the nuclear plant" it would raise its prices (again electricity prices in France are lower than in every single one of its neighbours , to which the country generally exports electricity incidentally).

It's not easy to estimate the cost of decommissioning and waste storage over very long periods, so it is very possible that those cost are far from reflected in the current prices, by mistake or for political reasons.

Re: Live display of CO2 emitted to produce electricity in European countries

#175

Post by kilotaras »

hellofunk wrote: post #124

I had no idea there was such a widespread difference in the source of electricity a among citizens of countries in Europe, even neighbouring countries. Look at how most of France is nuclear powered (!) compared to coal for Germany and gas for Netherlands. Such differences in a very small space! I'm kinda amazed by this!

Germany decided to close all of its 17 nuclear reactors by 2022 in wake of Fukushima. Nuclear is getting replaced mostly with renewables but coal remains unchallenged[1]

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Electricity_Production_in...

Re: Live display of CO2 emitted to produce electricity in European countries

#176

Post by nkkollaw »

machiaweliczny wrote: post #132
nkkollaw wrote: post #68

Wow, what's wrong with Poland? I guess they use a lot of coal to produce electricity..?

Nothing is wrong with Poland. If something is wrong then your ability to read presented data. It doesn't mean we are emitting more CO2 - for all colored map lovers see[1] CO2 emission per capita for Germany or other European countries before jumping to conclusions. [1] https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:CO2_per_capita_per_c...

I didn't mean it in an offensive way, more like "what's happening in Poland?".

Re: Live display of CO2 emitted to produce electricity in European countries

#177

Post by nkkollaw »

renaudg wrote: post #169
machiaweliczny wrote: post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nothing is wrong with Poland. If something is wrong then your ability to read presented data. It doesn't mean we are emitting more CO2 - for all colored map lovers see[1] CO2 emission per capita for Germany or other European countries before jumping to conclusions. [1] https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:CO2_per_capita_per_c...

> Nothing is wrong with Poland. If something is wrong then your ability to read presented data. This is, unfortunately, what nationalistic pride clouding otherwise smart people's judgment looks like.

Big time. And for no reason.

Re: Live display of CO2 emitted to produce electricity in European countries

#178

Post by hnusername »

nkkollaw wrote: post #177
renaudg wrote: post #169

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Nothing is wrong with Poland. If something is wrong then your ability to read presented data. This is, unfortunately, what nationalistic pride clouding otherwise smart people's judgment looks like.

Big time. And for no reason.

Sir. There is a reason people find it offensive. I can tell you that this whole coal based industry story is very sensitive subject in Poland. For a number of reasons, that are good for separate discussion.

But lets stick to the facts again. Just look at the top reddit r/dataisbeautiful/ comment

Took me a minute to realize that Poland wasn't black because of missing data, but rather because that's apparently how dirty their electricity is.

And why ? Because of black color used obviously. Ok but lets leave this unfortunate color aside. Many other questions arise.

- What does it mean that the page has live data visualization. How often is the data updated ?

- How many sources of data are there. Does it cover all of them in every country ? Are they all online all the time ?

- Why is Estonia dark brown the whole time but when i click on it is see

  wind ++
  solar ?
  hydro
  biomass ?
  nuclear
  gas ?
  coal
  oil ?
  unknown ++++++++++
and it still has 595 gCO2eq/kWh

- What does "?" stands for in the results? Are some sources unavailable or is the data corrupted or what ?

- Why there is nothing under coal ?

- What does unknown here mean ? Does it contribute to gCO2eq/kWh ? I mean, so much of unknown energy. Are you serious ?

- What is the metric used after all ?

Is this software even alpha ? What is the version ? That is all very important when you create "facts" like this in Internet.

Re: Live display of CO2 emitted to produce electricity in European countries

#179

Post by bobthechef »

mixedbit wrote: post #115

Polish right-wing government is blocking any development that could hurt coal industry. They passed the law that significantly constrains where windmills can be located. They also hindered development of solar by reverting the law that allowed individual owners of solar panels to be paid for the overproduced electricity.

Weasel words like "right-wing" are unproductive. Besides, no post-communist gov't in Poland had don't anything serious in this arena. Also, I encourage you to keep in mind the broader context, please.

Re: Live display of CO2 emitted to produce electricity in European countries

#180

Post by bobthechef »

primitivesuave wrote: post #157
hnusername wrote: post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Polish government is not right-wing. There may be right wing of it, but it is not right wing per se. Right wing of what? See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sanation for a better clue about what current polish government may aspire to be like. It may have some right wing parts of what is above all big centrist coalition. Another issue is. How is this government blocking development that could hurt coal industry any dif…

Didn't your government effectively take away all powers from the top constitutional court, allowing the government to pass any law without judicial backlash? Meanwhile you are all hung up on what the color green represents.

Btw, that's not at all accurate where Poland's constitutional court is concerned (mind you, the court was created by a communist dictator to guard the regime against the rising tide of the Solidarity movement; couple that with Poland's mediocre constitution today and the previous ruling party's machinations and involvement in manufacturing the crisis). The issue is more complicated than what the media has presented us with. It's also rather banal in itself and is being used by powerful interest groups to keep the post-communist boat steady. In general, I recommend deeper familiarity with the topic before commenting. Many journalists possess superficial comprehension of the topics they report about and basing one's opinions on a few articles is not good practice. (Furthermore, Anne Applebaum, who I claim has been quite influential in influencing American opinion on the subject, has written about this and related topics in the WaPo a number of times in what amounts to a conflict of interest: her husband Radek Sikorski was a high ranking minister in the previous gov't and member of the previous ruling party, the same party embroiled in numerous corruption scandals and stands to lose under this gov't, never mind that they have a long history of demonizing ands scapegoating the current ruling party when it was in the opposition as a way of deflecting from its own failures and as a way of trying to secure its elite status. Mind you, Sikorski was himself a central figure in some of these corruption scandals, one of which involved making illegal backroom deals with the central bank to influence the elections in his party's favor.)
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