Grateful Dead Fan Timothy Tyler Has Been Granted Clemency • Hacker News Board

Re: Grateful Dead Fan Timothy Tyler Has Been Granted Clemency

#171

Post by dang » Wed, Aug 31, 2016, 3:30 PM UTC

snsr wrote: post #166

ievahanordah wrote: post #126

Like typing into an abyss of dumb. "LSD makes you wear flowers in your hair". Someone kill me please, make the misery end.

> Someone kill me please, make the misery end. How about you just stop posting instead?

Comments like this make the thread even worse, so please don't post them. Instead, when you see an egregious comment, you can flag it by clicking on its timestamp to go to its page, then clicking 'flag'. (There's a small karma threshold, currently 30, before you can do this.) Moderators review these flags and take action based on them.

Re: Grateful Dead Fan Timothy Tyler Has Been Granted Clemency

#172

Post by ghshephard » Wed, Aug 31, 2016, 3:30 PM UTC

kgwgk wrote: post #112

ghshephard wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Some objective research is useful here. Lancet did an evaluation across multiple spectrums, harm to self, harm to environment, harm to society, harm to others, crime, etc... ( https://www.researchgate.net/publication/47635105_Nutt_DJ_Ki... ) - in particular, check out the graph down the page. Alcohol is unquestionably the more destructive of substances, LSD ranks far lower in this scale. Importantly, Alcohol results…

> Alcohol is unquestionably the more destructive of substances Because it is the most popular one. The "harm to others" part of the score is not per user. At the margin, one typical heroin or crack consumer creates more costs to society than one typical alcohol consumer.

Is that really the case? I can't think of any reason why a heroin addict would be harmful to others, whereas people who drink alcohol tend to drive and kill/injure others. Indeed, if a heroin addict has clean needles, safe place to inject, and a safe supply of heroin, (close to zero mortality in Vancouver Safe Injection sites) then it's relatively benign substance, other than addictive component.

I bet if you put one alcoholic against one heroin addict, more damage across almost every spectrum than the heroin addict.

Re: Grateful Dead Fan Timothy Tyler Has Been Granted Clemency

#173

Post by LyndsySimon » Wed, Aug 31, 2016, 3:33 PM UTC

hutzlibu wrote: post #83

LyndsySimon wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wouldn't worry about it much - there are a lot of us out there who aren't exactly "single-issue voters", but for whom a single issue can make a candidate completely unpalatable. For me, that's guns. For you, that's drugs. For many others, it's abortion.

Just curious, pro or against guns? I suppose against, meaning you want a candidat who wants tight regulation?

I was purposefully vague :)

I'm very, very pro-gun.

Re: Grateful Dead Fan Timothy Tyler Has Been Granted Clemency

#174

Post by CoryG89 » Wed, Aug 31, 2016, 3:39 PM UTC

bogomipz wrote: post #160

CoryG89 wrote: post #156

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It most definitely does work this way in practice. If you go buy a sheet of acid from a random person, you can bet there is at least a 50% chance it contains no LSD at all. Why should I give you a sheet with LSD on it when I can give you a clean sheet with nothing on it and you wouldn't know the difference until at least 45-60 minutes after you took it? Plenty of time for me to get away with your money. More likely,…

No it doesn't work that way in practice. LSD is culturally much different that the substance where you are likely to be sold bogus substances. I'm not saying it can't happen, its just not very common. The culture where acid is prevalent is much more communal.

Right, you must think LSD dealers are so much more enlightened than dealers of other drugs.

According, to the studies shown here on erowid, the blotter tabs examined by labs since '97 range anywhere from 19 micrograms all the way up to 148 micrograms. The older lab tests from the 70s and 80s seem to have a greater range testing at anywhere from 5 micrograms to 500 micrograms per tab!

All of these blotter tabs are going to weigh roughly the same amount. Some of the weaker ones may even weigh more than the stronger ones due to the difference in the type of paper.

https://erowid.org/chemicals/lsd/lsd_article3.shtml

Re: Grateful Dead Fan Timothy Tyler Has Been Granted Clemency

#175

Post by elbows » Wed, Aug 31, 2016, 3:39 PM UTC

ultramancool wrote: post #110

cmdrfred wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Wine is tasty. Beer is tasty. Brandy is tasty. And (anecdotally) know many people who aren't just drinking them to get out of their heads... I did coke for a few years, at first it tasted gross but I liked the effect by the end it was 'tasty'. That is your brains reward center at work, it shapes experiences that release dopamine and makes them more positive. In reality coke tastes like baby laxatives and bleach and…

Yeah, this is why acquiring the "taste" for a new alcohol often boils down to getting drunk on it a few times. And annecdotally, most pot smokers didn't like the smell at first, but are now quite pleased by it.

Interesting. I've never smoked pot but I really enjoy the smell. But that could be because my parents were hippies when I was young, so I got a lot of second-hand exposure and it has pleasant associations for me.

Re: Grateful Dead Fan Timothy Tyler Has Been Granted Clemency

#176

Post by jacalata » Wed, Aug 31, 2016, 3:43 PM UTC

cloudjacker wrote: post #163

mgr86 wrote: post #141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>with his dad being dead -- For those unaware his father died in Prison. Why was he in Prison? Well the son committed the crime in the house the father owned. His father died 8 years into a 10 year prison sentence. Cruel.

Ok, curious, what circumstances led to that? The enforcement nowadays seems limited to civil forfeiture, where they would have seized ownership of the house without ever charging the dad, also an egregious act but very different from what happened here? I read that Timothy was selling LSD to a DEA agent so this implies the entire case was federal? Do the feds still act this way in charging the homeowner instead of "m…

I can't find much info on the father but the wikipedia cite for his father going to prison goes to this:

> In May of 1992, Tyler sold pot and LSD to a longtime friend who was really a police informant. His father, who was also named Timothy and had a fireworks business in Florida, helped out with the deal and was charged along with his son. ... His father, who had a prior pot charge from 1969, got 10 years, Tyler-Stoafer told me. He had heart trouble and died in prison when he was 53, after serving 8 years in prison. http://www.businessinsider.com/timothy-tylers-mandatory-mini...

I also found this:

>Some packages with LSD were mailed to Tim’s father’s address, implicating him in the case as well. https://www.headcount.org/this-peaceful-deadhead-will-die-in...

Re: Grateful Dead Fan Timothy Tyler Has Been Granted Clemency

#177

Post by mgr86 » Wed, Aug 31, 2016, 3:43 PM UTC

cloudjacker wrote: post #163

mgr86 wrote: post #141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>with his dad being dead -- For those unaware his father died in Prison. Why was he in Prison? Well the son committed the crime in the house the father owned. His father died 8 years into a 10 year prison sentence. Cruel.

Ok, curious, what circumstances led to that? The enforcement nowadays seems limited to civil forfeiture, where they would have seized ownership of the house without ever charging the dad, also an egregious act but very different from what happened here? I read that Timothy was selling LSD to a DEA agent so this implies the entire case was federal? Do the feds still act this way in charging the homeowner instead of "m…

I'm sorry I don't have an answer for that at this moment. I read the comment on a different medium that had posted this story. I cannot verify it at this moment and don't have the available time to research it further.

If this is the story I recall he was mailing it via USPS and they letters originated from the house the father owned. However, this is a fuzzy memory from some time back.

Re: Grateful Dead Fan Timothy Tyler Has Been Granted Clemency

#178

Post by hasbroslasher » Wed, Aug 31, 2016, 3:44 PM UTC

tigershark wrote: post #61

hasbroslasher wrote: post #40

Always amazes me that LSD is illegal while alcohol is legal, the latter causing all host of metal and physical ailments, the former causing mostly hilarious navel-gazing

It always amazes me how many people on HN trivialise extremely dangerous drugs saying that alcohol is more dangerous. I'd rather stay in a room with someone that drinks a glass of wine a day than with someone that assumes LSD every day.

The equivalent of drinking a glass of wine every day is microdosing LSD, which, interesting, is something that's increasingly popular in the tech community. You may be already be around people every day who are consuming LSD.

To avoid a false dichotomy, you should say you'd rather spend your days with your friend who's drunk to the point of constantly hugging you and telling you "I love you bro, we're fucking bros, man, lets move to Mexico and become fucking PIRATES, man"

Last, it sounds like you've never been around someone who's on LSD, because at low doses they're usually very tame and can at times provide great conversation.

Re: Grateful Dead Fan Timothy Tyler Has Been Granted Clemency

#179

Post by mcguire » Wed, Aug 31, 2016, 3:54 PM UTC

Nursie wrote: post #104

tigershark wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Let's give anyone that wants a glass of wine a shot of heroin then, we'll save the world because we are giving them a chance to use a less dangerous drugs. I'll be quite curious to see how it goes, as you say only 25% of heroin users might become addicted. And of course more than 1/4 of the people that drinks a glass of wine is an addict, as you can see around you. :)

Where did you read that heroin was less harmful than alcohol? The post you reply to compares alcohol and LSD. The abstract of the linked paper says that heroin is one of the most harmful drugs, more so than alcohol to the user, but grouped with alcohol in terms of harm to others.

The Lancet paper. The graph shows tobacco as less harmful than cocaine, metamphetamine, and heroin, as well as alcohol.

Re: Grateful Dead Fan Timothy Tyler Has Been Granted Clemency

#180

Post by hasbroslasher » Wed, Aug 31, 2016, 3:55 PM UTC

tigershark wrote: post #101

Nursie wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The thing is that alcohol is objectively more dangerous and more harmful than many/most illegal drugs. It has both acute and chronic health effects, it's addictive and it causes (or at least facilitates) all sorts of social problems including a lot of violence. It kills its users and its users sometimes kill or hurt other people when under its influence. It always amazes me how willing people are to overlook the evil…

Absolutely no. It may be true to some extent for alcohol abuse . Saying that alcohol is objectively more harmful and dangerous than many/most illegal drugs is simply an outrageous lie. I never saw anyone die for a glass of wine a day, I guess that there is plenty of cases of death for regular drugs users. It's simply disconcerting that you encourage the use of illegal drugs saying that are not dangerous on a public w…

TIL it's offensive to have an informed opinion. First, lets cover the fallacies - no one said alcohol is more dangerous than crack. No one said alcohol is more dangerous than heroin. Several people did say alcohol is more dangerous than LSD, MDMA, other drugs. The data backs this up, in terms of mortality and in social ills that come of alcoholism. Being nonaddictive and having such an insanely high lethal dose, there isn't even regular data on how many people die to LSD yearly! So if we're playing the "outrageous lie" game, then you're winning.

In all seriousness though, look at the facts: http://www.cdc.gov/alcohol/fact-sheets/alcohol-use.htm - Alcohol is responsible for far more deaths, in part because of its availability. For lack of a better resource, https://erowid.org/chemicals/lsd/lsd_death.shtml - no one dies from LSD.

You'd do yourself a favor to avoid conflating psychedelics with highly addictive "hard" drugs.