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CotEditor – Text Editor for OS X

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Re: CotEditor – Text Editor for OS X

#161
post #160

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Astounding. That's potentially the most harmful opinion a developer could possibly hold. The single greatest benefit of having our skill set is that we are capable, in a way that few other people in the world are capable, of single handedly building products that we can sell for the kind of money that frees us from needing to work for other people. We can quite literally create our own destiny. And you would throw th…

Perhaps somethings are more valuable than money to some?

Money isn't what we're optimizing though. It's freedom.

Having a software product as income source means you don't have to have a day job working for somebody else. It means you can spend your time doing whatever you want, be that working on your own personal projects, surfing, traveling or, yes, earning more money. You can even choose to build open source Mac text editors and give them away for free.

It's your choice what to do with that freedom. The important point is that we, as software developers, are essentially handed that freedom by nature of our skill set.

That's a really cool thing. So while I can see an entitled end-user saying something like the grandparent's "you already have a job that pays you, so give us the output from your nights and weekends for free", it's surprising to see that attitude from somebody who would be most impacted, were that to become a reasonable expectation.

Re: CotEditor – Text Editor for OS X

#162

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not really sure how practical it is to sell an open-source desktop application; anyone can compile and run it for free and the 'sell support' model usually isn't viable for something as simple as a text editor.

You underestimate the difficulty of compiling from source for the layman. OSX and Windows do not come with compilers out of the box. The user would have to install them and the proper environment for them first. (cygwin, etc...) Then they'd have to get and install the dependencies properly. Finally they'd have to figure out the proper incantations to make it compile, which if you've never done it before can be extrem…

True, it can be a real pain if your environment slightly differs from the developper. I just give up most of the time if I have to compile myself.

Re: CotEditor – Text Editor for OS X

#163
post #5

I'm pretty effective with vim, so much that other 'normal' editors like sublime & other modern gui editors make me feel a little crippled. That is a problem, because you need to be flexible about things in life. Has anyone succeeded in deliberately changing editors, even when not feeling like it's necessary? I'm especially curious how I could start using emacs, and actually get up to speed with it instead of using it…

My progression was Vim -> Emacs -> Sublime. Funnily enough, on systems with no Sublime I still tend to use Vim.

It took me about a month of consciously making myself work in Emacs to get a hang of it. But I don't use any major features, like macros.

Emacs is awesome for Python indenting, for example, but when I switched to a less elaborate indenting convention, I kind of just drifted away from Emacs.

Re: CotEditor – Text Editor for OS X

#164
post #160

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Perhaps somethings are more valuable than money to some?

Money isn't what we're optimizing though. It's freedom. Having a software product as income source means you don't have to have a day job working for somebody else. It means you can spend your time doing whatever you want, be that working on your own personal projects, surfing, traveling or, yes, earning more money. You can even choose to build open source Mac text editors and give them away for free. It's your choic…

Again, you are making a lot of assumptions about the motivation of other people.

Some people crave the recognition a successful open source project gives.

Some want to learn something.

Some want to give a gift to the world.

Some don't want the hassle of supporting software.

Some believe "from each according to their ability, to each according to their need"

Re: CotEditor – Text Editor for OS X

#165

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not really sure how practical it is to sell an open-source desktop application; anyone can compile and run it for free and the 'sell support' model usually isn't viable for something as simple as a text editor.

You underestimate the difficulty of compiling from source for the layman. OSX and Windows do not come with compilers out of the box. The user would have to install them and the proper environment for them first. (cygwin, etc...) Then they'd have to get and install the dependencies properly. Finally they'd have to figure out the proper incantations to make it compile, which if you've never done it before can be extrem…

The problem is, only one person has to figure out how to build it, then if it's real free and open source software, they're legally allowed to distribute their own unofficial builds over the internet. The original XChat developer decided that it was too much effort to develop XChat for Windows, so he charged for it, which resulted in silverex's free X-Chat 2 builds and the HexChat fork.

I don't think users respond well to this either. You're essentially splitting your userbase into a group of people who know enough to build it themselves and receive it for free, and a group that have to pay, and I don't think people in the latter group appreciate being in that group.

Re: CotEditor – Text Editor for OS X

#166
post #155

The license is GPL v2; you might want to consider using “Version 2 of the GPL or any later version” as GPL v2 is unfortunately incompatible with the Apache license. Also, the GPL v3 is becoming more and more popular nowadays. This means you could keep the project under GPL v2, but people would have the option of using a later GPL version.

I've never liked this idea. What's to keep the FSF from adding a "you give us royalty-free rights to all your patents for eternity" as a clause in GPL v4?

The author is never forced to use a later version. "Version 2 of the GPL or any later version" simply means that distributor (other than the author) can choose between using gplv2, gplv3, gplv4 and so on.

The author is always free pick any license of their choosing for work that they have themselves has authored.

Re: CotEditor – Text Editor for OS X

#167
post #164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Money isn't what we're optimizing though. It's freedom. Having a software product as income source means you don't have to have a day job working for somebody else. It means you can spend your time doing whatever you want, be that working on your own personal projects, surfing, traveling or, yes, earning more money. You can even choose to build open source Mac text editors and give them away for free. It's your choic…

Again, you are making a lot of assumptions about the motivation of other people. Some people crave the recognition a successful open source project gives. Some want to learn something. Some want to give a gift to the world. Some don't want the hassle of supporting software. Some believe "from each according to their ability, to each according to their need"

Indeed. My point is that it's the author's choice, not the end user's.

Re: CotEditor – Text Editor for OS X

#168

Nice looking. But I can't use it as is now — it has no tabs/sidebar for more documents. TextWrangler FTW. I actually run Notepad++ via Wine too for HTML. It's the only editor I've found that can expand and contract a hierarchy of *ML using plus and minus signs in the marginal of the editor. Difficult to explain, I guess you have to try it to understand. It's indispensable and I can't be without it. I'd love to go nat…

TextWrangler and TextMate has it.

TextWrangler is my default text editor in OS X and I haven't noticed this. Do I have to enable it in some way?

Re: CotEditor – Text Editor for OS X

#169
post #137
post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well technically Emacs is just a Lisp interpreter with some text editing facilities by default. With evil-mode it is just as modal as vim throughout.

> Well technically Emacs is just a Lisp interpreter with some text editing facilities by default. With evil-mode it is just as modal as vim throughout. I don't mean to suggest that Emacs can't be made into a modal editor—saying "Emacs can't do that" is good only as a reverse-psychology tactic to convince someone to make Emacs do that—but rather that it is not "by its nature" such; that is, that someone is unlikely to…

Well, the EVIL-mode is used by a lot of people who want the features of GNU Emacs and a modal interface. If you search around there are several people with detailed reports why and how they switched to a modal GNU Emacs.

Re: CotEditor – Text Editor for OS X

#170
post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can confirm that text encoding is still a real pain in Japan. Despite the fact that we now have UTF-8, which should be used whenever possible, legacy encodings like SJIS, EUC, etc. still abound. For instance, whenever I download CSV bank or credit card data here in Japan, I always have to convert the file from one of those encodings before using it. At work in Tokyo, I deal with email in these encoding (or worse --…

Off-topic response: w.r.t. code completion plugins in Chocolat, the hard part is already done. With v3, the plugin API is now process-separated, and communication is over mach ports. Now that there's a stable, non-blocking and low-latency foundation for plugins, all I need to do is figure out a good API for it. My advice to aspiring text editor authors would be: do development on the slowest most outdated computer yo…

The auto complete in Chocolat is just mind-blowing.

Unfortunately I really miss all the keyboard friendly features in Sublime (CMD+P then write the name of a file; CMD+SHIFT+P and write a command). I think if you had those implemented many Sublime users may consider switching to Chocolat. (then there are also features that may be harder to implement, like Sublime's search and multi-cursor selection)

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