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Waymo pulls over, calls cops on juvenile riders who had 'ghost gun"

latimes.com

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Re: Waymo pulls over, calls cops on juvenile riders who had 'ghost gun"

#161

Post by luckydata »

kennywinker wrote: post #117
alt227 wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Taxis, busses, and trains are all private spaces with cameras in them. Public infrastructure has been run by private companies for a long time.

Yes. And the use of cameras has traditionally been: if something happens, there is a record that can be consulted. That has changed. Networked cameras and AI means that cameras can be constantly monitored: license plates logged and mapped in realtime, faces scanned and profiled, symbols and objects detected. I have no problem with calling the cops on someone with a gun. But that same kind of tech can (and has already…

a taxi driver will call the police if you do anything stupid inside them, usually after dropping you in the middle of the street, your argument doesn't hold any water.

Re: Waymo pulls over, calls cops on juvenile riders who had 'ghost gun"

#163

Post by Animats »

There's no reference to a "ghost gun" in the LA Times text. It's only in the headline. In the text, the weapon is referred to as an AR-15. SFGATE, though, quotes cops as saying "AR-styled assault rifle also known as a ghost gun.”

The "ghost gun" thing refers to guns without serial numbers. For an AR-15, that usually means something assembled from an "80% lower receiver", a part which exists purely to evade US gun laws. [1] It's not quite complete; it takes some final machining. This can be done by hand with modest machine shop tools, or there's a special-purpose 3-axis CNC mill to do it for $4000, available from Ghost Gunner.[2] (They used to sell a simpler device for $1200 which was only useful for the single task of finishing "80% lower receivers", but the current $4000 unit is halfway respectable as a desktop CNC mill. It understands a subset of G-Code. Nobody seems to use it for general CNC work, though. A good desktop CNC mill for $4000 would be useful, but they'd need to get serious about cooling and chip removal.)

[1] https://gundigest.com/more/how-to/gunsmithing/building-a-gho...

[2] https://ghostgunner.net/

Re: Waymo pulls over, calls cops on juvenile riders who had 'ghost gun"

#164

Post by mmooss »

bot403 wrote: post #8
kelnos wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's a big difference between a human present who can make a decision based on a situation literally in front of their eyes, and a computer flagging a video feed for someone in what amounts to a call center to look at and decide on. Not to mention the mass surveillance this sort of stuff continues to help enable.

I'm not a fan of expanding surveillance but the alternative of unmonitored transit seems worse. Going to shoot up a place? Take your guns on a waymo. It won't complain. Guy wants to take an obviously distressed and co-erced girl to an abandoned lot? No complaints. Person with obvious head injury and slurring speech wants to go home instead of the hospital? Sure. Person has heart attack and passes out in back? We'll j…

> alternative of unmonitored transit seems worse

Almost all private cars are unmonitored (in this respect).

Re: Waymo pulls over, calls cops on juvenile riders who had 'ghost gun"

#165

Post by a4isms »

monster_truck wrote: post #86
anon84873628 wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Would you do any of those things in a regular taxi or subway car? Imagine the alternative headline saying the murderers used Waymo for their drive-by assassination. There is only one option for Waymo here, and the idiocy of the US police is not within their power to solve.

We used to do this and more with nerf guns, laser tag, and then paintball guns. You're not going to believe this but we even used to be able to ride our bikes 30 miles away from home without our parents being arrested. We played with fire in the park too. One time we even found porn there dude The 90s were lit Nah you're right tho let's imagine the worst case scenario. What if that person in the waymo had a nuclear b…

Don't talk to me about the 90s if you weren't soaking a tennis ball in lighter fluid and firing the flaming missile out of a "potato gun" made out of beer cans... in the 70s. Also something about all the kids trying to imitate Evil Knievel and jumping their bikes off ramps made out of planks and milk crates... Without protective gear of any kind.

Everyone who got out of that decade alive and with at most minimal brain damage thinks that we're too obsessed with safety today.

;-)

Re: Waymo pulls over, calls cops on juvenile riders who had 'ghost gun"

#166

Post by kennywinker »

luckydata wrote: post #161
kennywinker wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes. And the use of cameras has traditionally been: if something happens, there is a record that can be consulted. That has changed. Networked cameras and AI means that cameras can be constantly monitored: license plates logged and mapped in realtime, faces scanned and profiled, symbols and objects detected. I have no problem with calling the cops on someone with a gun. But that same kind of tech can (and has already…

a taxi driver will call the police if you do anything stupid inside them, usually after dropping you in the middle of the street, your argument doesn't hold any water.

Yes. Totally. Will a taxi driver call the police to let them know where I was if I am a journalist on my way to meet a source?

Networked cameras with ai monitoring is begging for totalitarian oppression. A cabby calling the cops because I did something shitty in their cab is not.

Re: Waymo pulls over, calls cops on juvenile riders who had 'ghost gun"

#167

Post by harshreality »

bravura wrote: post #146
harshreality wrote: post #129

Maybe we need very clear, standardized signals for entering a surveillance zone (where someone not obviously present, possibly a corporate stooge or AI or simpler-than-AI automated detection system, is judging behavior) so that people realize that private behavior (like casually showing off guns to each other, safely, which I've seen done myself and was not cause for alarm—guns were legal) is no longer private. The s…

"Maybe we need very clear, standardized signals for entering a surveillance zone." [proceeds to give a libertarian pro-2A perspective and then the "what would a cab driver do perspective] I have a suggestion. Perhaps if you enter an autonomous vehicle, it has a display with your name and will not drive until you buckle your seatbelt and click the button acknowledging?

When no strangers seem to be around, but we might be under surveillance, are we all supposed to tailor our legal behavior so that no random person or AI surveillance could reasonably view it as possibly illegal or problematic?

How can someone have an expectation of privacy if they take pictures of a gun in a waymo, and upload them to google drive... but no expectation of privacy against waymo calling the cops when they see the same thing with their own cameras?

Re: Waymo pulls over, calls cops on juvenile riders who had 'ghost gun"

#168

Post by globular-toast »

lemmetellya wrote: post #26

Wait, can I not carry in a Waymo? Found their rules page: "Do not carry weapons of any kind in the car" That seems... naive? Plenty of people carry pepper spray or a knife with them. Not even ever intending to use them as a weapon. When I go to the range, I travel with a locked case that contains my pistol, which inside has a cable lock. I couldn't take that through a waymo? What about some kid buying a goofy mall ka…

Even if their rules say that I don't get why they are allowed to call the police. In this case it might have been an unregistered gun but if someone was carrying legally they can refuse service but they shouldn't be calling the police.

Re: Waymo pulls over, calls cops on juvenile riders who had 'ghost gun"

#169

Post by LorenPechtel »

analog31 wrote: post #69
leopoldj wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Please do not encourage your children to carry and brandish replica guns. This is never a good idea. Unfortunately I see this more frequently than I like. Kids don't just carry, they aim and pretend to shoot. Even in an open carry state like Florida brandishing a gun is illegal.

I know, it's a different world. I'm 62. As a kid, my friends and I chased one another around the neighborhood with toy guns for hours, raising a racket. My kids are 24 and 26 now, but it would have been unthinkable to let them have toy guns.

Clearly toy guns. Gun-like, but nobody with the slightest understanding of guns would think they were real. I have no problem with kids having toy guns. I do have a problem with kids in public having realistic replica guns. Bright orange isn't enough.

I think the answer is that other than in organized events realistic replicas should be subject to the same restrictions on actions that real guns are.

Re: Waymo pulls over, calls cops on juvenile riders who had 'ghost gun"

#170

Post by willsmith72 »

AngryData wrote: post #132
willsmith72 wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> What if Waymo thought the guns were real, called the cops, and the cops screwed up and shot one of the kids? See this is only an issue because that is a plausible situation. The actual problem is on the police/cultural side, not the waymo side. No one should even have to think about this when calling the cops. And I can't think of 1 other western society where they do

This is America though. The mere presense of a gun shouldn't involve calling the cops unless there is a bigger reason to expect something nefarious. US cops being thugs and aggressive is a known fact so I find it hard to say Waymo isn't part of the problem, they have the best view of the situation after all and are initiating the call/report of armed criminals.

> The mere presense of a gun shouldn't involve calling the cops

Unless it's against the terms of service of the private corporation

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