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Waymo pulls over, calls cops on juvenile riders who had 'ghost gun"

latimes.com

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Re: Waymo pulls over, calls cops on juvenile riders who had 'ghost gun"

#101

Post by kennywinker »

gruez wrote: post #91
singleshot_ wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure, but the Waymo is taking intrusive video of much more than the inside of the car. And unlike a mast-mounted camera, it can be sent almost anywhere at almost any time.

>Sure, but the Waymo is taking intrusive video of much more than the inside of the car. The alternative is having a driver in the car, which is equally intrusive.

> The alternative is having a driver in the car, which is equally intrusive.

Would you rather have one random stranger see you naked, or have a video of you naked passed around to every cop in your city?

Unless you feel the same about those two scenarios, it seems like a driver and a camera are not equally intrusive.

Re: Waymo pulls over, calls cops on juvenile riders who had 'ghost gun"

#102

Post by mingus88 »

kstrauser wrote: post #68
anon84873628 wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Good thing Waymo yells you you're being monitored then.

And the sign along the highway says my speed might be monitored by airplane, but I don’t want to live where that means a surveillance drone is flying along side me at all times. Consenting to let a taxi record me in case it comes up later that I did something bad and they want to have footage of it is one thing. But now we know Waymo is a little Flock tattletale, and people generally aren’t ok with their robocab proa…

I’m anti surveillance but I don’t get this take.

Every uber driver I’ve been ive been in has an inside dashcam to protect themselves and their property. I would do the same thing if I were them.

Waymo has every right to monitor their property and if someone does something illegal in their car why would they not report? An Uber driver would do the same, as would I. Otherwise you are an accomplice.

This comparison to Flock is bunk. Flock cameras are in public places and paid for with public dollars. I don’t want that.

But in a surveillance state, every private citizen should be keeping their own footage. Nobody is going to share theirs with you.

Re: Waymo pulls over, calls cops on juvenile riders who had 'ghost gun"

#103

Post by numpad0 »

graemep wrote: post #25
anon84873628 wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Would you do any of those things in a regular taxi or subway car? Imagine the alternative headline saying the murderers used Waymo for their drive-by assassination. There is only one option for Waymo here, and the idiocy of the US police is not within their power to solve.

A human driver would be more able to tell a toy gun from a real one.

Really only airsofters know telltale signs of toy guns. Guys into real guns can't instantly tell them apart.

It's that way because real guns weren't available in Japan but real-ism wasn't defined, so Japanese toy gun brands just turned that volume up to 1100 without allowing toy guns take pressure bearing gun parts. And then those toy guns got exported and copied, leading to the present status.

Re: Waymo pulls over, calls cops on juvenile riders who had 'ghost gun"

#104

Post by [deleted] »

kelnos wrote: post #3

I'm really torn on this. This particular situation, at face value at least, sounds like a good outcome. Kids had a gun, someone noticed, called police, situation handled without escalation or violence or something tragic happening. But this doesn't generalize. Another incident described in the article was when some kids were drinking in the car and shooting toy guns. What if they hadn't been drinking? What if they we…

[deleted]

Re: Waymo pulls over, calls cops on juvenile riders who had 'ghost gun"

#105

Post by smelendez »

graemep wrote: post #25
anon84873628 wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Would you do any of those things in a regular taxi or subway car? Imagine the alternative headline saying the murderers used Waymo for their drive-by assassination. There is only one option for Waymo here, and the idiocy of the US police is not within their power to solve.

A human driver would be more able to tell a toy gun from a real one.

I’m not sure the line is that clear.

Any gun shooting projectiles out of a moving vehicle is dangerous. Pellet guns and paintball guns are less dangerous than “regular” guns, but they’re not really toys.

Re: Waymo pulls over, calls cops on juvenile riders who had 'ghost gun"

#106

Post by kragen »

PunchTornado wrote: post #72
kobalsky wrote: post #10

> The company pulled the car over after detecting a “violation of our terms of service involving a firearm," Well now my biggest fear of riding a Waymo is not how it drives but getting my Google account banned because it misdetected something.

Do you know what a ghost gun is? Where is the misdetection?

In the US, the term is used to mean firearms that are legal to manufacture but not to sell, because they do not have serial numbers for tracing. The misdetection would be if the Waymo cameras did not have sufficient resolution to see the serial number on the firearm, or if the firearm serial number were concealed, for example by being locked inside of a carrying case, as is the standard practice for responsible firearm owners.

However, kobalsky is alluding to frequent past reports of Google misdetecting things that are not ghost guns, followed by banning people's accounts. For example:

https://www.nytimes.com/2022/08/21/technology/google-surveil... #news from 02022 of Google flagging Mark [anonymous]’s Google account for child porn when he sent a photo of his toddler son’s infected penis to the doctor and reported him to the police. The police decided no abuse had happened but he never got his account back. #privacy #human-rights #USA #politics

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36443747 Very disturbing accounts of people getting banned from Google for searching for the board game "Ethnos", from credit cards for not using them, from Amazon for having a racist doorbell recording, etc.

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=47115805 seems like people are getting banned from their #Google accounts for using #OpenClaw for #AI with #Gemini

https://discuss.ai.google.dev/t/account-restricted-without-w... more on people getting banned from their #Google accounts for using #OpenClaw for #AI with #Gemini:

Aminreza Khoshbahar: “I’m seeking assistance regarding a sudden restriction on my Google AI Ultra account that has persisted for three days. I received no prior warnings or notifications regarding a potential violation.

“The only recent change in my workflow was connecting Gemini models via OpenClaw OAuth. If third-party integrations are the issue, I would expect the platform to block the integration rather than restrict a paid account ($249/mo) without communication.”

Re: Waymo pulls over, calls cops on juvenile riders who had 'ghost gun"

#107

Post by alt227 »

kennywinker wrote: post #100
lotsofpulp wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What public infrastructure is replaced by Waymo? All the roads, traffic lights, signs, etc are all still there. Seems equivalent to any other vehicle that is not replacing public infrastructure.

Taxis are a part of transportation infrastructure. Like a system that allows public and private healthcare, a private option pulls the rich people off the public system causing them to neglect and vote against the public system. So waymos means less busses/trains, which means a bunch of people stuck in the middle - they would prefer to take a bus or a train but the service is poorly maintained so they are forced to t…

Taxis, busses, and trains are all private spaces with cameras in them.

Public infrastructure has been run by private companies for a long time.

Re: Waymo pulls over, calls cops on juvenile riders who had 'ghost gun"

#108

Post by stymaar »

anon84873628 wrote: post #12
kelnos wrote: post #3

I'm really torn on this. This particular situation, at face value at least, sounds like a good outcome. Kids had a gun, someone noticed, called police, situation handled without escalation or violence or something tragic happening. But this doesn't generalize. Another incident described in the article was when some kids were drinking in the car and shooting toy guns. What if they hadn't been drinking? What if they we…

Would you do any of those things in a regular taxi or subway car? Imagine the alternative headline saying the murderers used Waymo for their drive-by assassination. There is only one option for Waymo here, and the idiocy of the US police is not within their power to solve.

> and the idiocy of the US police is not within their power to solve.

Given how much money Google gives to electoral campaigns, I'd argue that it is in their power but that's the least of their problems when they interfere with the democratic process. They are too busy voting for less taxes and regulations on their business.

Re: Waymo pulls over, calls cops on juvenile riders who had 'ghost gun"

#109

Post by redwall_hp »

gruez wrote: post #92
analog8374 wrote: post #78

I was at LOWES the other day with a used can of paint that I brought for color matching. obviously used. beat up and stained. at the checkout the computer halted the checkout process said "did you forget something in your cart?" yeah fuck that. also fucks self-checkout. are we so poverty stricken as a society now that we can't afford to pay cashiers?

>also fucks self-checkout. are we so poverty stricken as a society now that we can't afford to pay cashiers? Yeah, I'm appalled how poor as a society we've become, now that we can't afford door men (outside of luxury condos in Manhattan), elevator operators, and bank tellers.

As someone who cashiered in college, I vastly preferred monitoring self checkouts over being monetarily forced to interact with an endless line of the kind of people who don't use self checkouts.

As a shopper, I don't want to be one of those people either. Ideally, I want lower friction and to be able to pay on my phone instead of dealing with the kiosk.

Re: Waymo pulls over, calls cops on juvenile riders who had 'ghost gun"

#110

Post by alt227 »

jplona wrote: post #15
handwarmers wrote: post #9

Flock is bad, but fleets of cars strapped to the teeth with cameras and sensors are suddenly ok even when they call the police on you? Why? Because of the makers of the technology that powers the cars say they are safer (via datasets that we have no way to validate)?

I think there's a legitimate distinction between monitoring what's inside the car vs what's outside. Outside seems bad. Inside is probably necessary.

How are they supposed to drive themselves without monitoring whats going on outside the vehicle?
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