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U.S. Rules Apple Illegally Interrogated Staff and Confiscated Union Flyers

forbes.com

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Re: U.S. Rules Apple Illegally Interrogated Staff and Confiscated Union Flyers

#161

Post by snapcaster »

alkonaut wrote: post #131
whamlastxmas wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Police are what shows up when labor strikes. They’re part of the government, not a part of the collective “labor” that is the rest of the working world. As an example, police are part of an association but not a union. They aren’t legally allowed to strike anywhere in the US. They serve the interests of capitalism, which is the other side of the coin of workers’ rights

So they have a union, which is not a labor union? fair enough. It seems like a distinction without a difference for the topic. Some restrictions on strikes usually covers lots of different jobs (e.g. nurses).

There is a difference though, it's which side they're on

Re: U.S. Rules Apple Illegally Interrogated Staff and Confiscated Union Flyers

#162

Post by bko »

baq wrote: post #114
pashsoft wrote: post #103

It seems like most of the "union problems" in the US arise from workers clashing with overly-greedy, abusive employers. The employer generally has more power in this relationship, and uses that power to squeeze every last bit of value out of their workforce. The workforce has few ways to push back against this, with unions being one of the options. Maybe if other options were on the table, there would be fewer union…

employers have HR, employees have unions. HR is corporate police. employers hate the idea of having employee police.

I think employers hate having to deal with a gatekeeper and some rubric as to who they can hire to do what, how much to pay them etc

I've worked in places where there was union labor for building management. You literally weren't allowed to unplug your computer and move it yourself. You had to file a ticket and have somebody come and do it for you and bill handsomely to do it. What's not to love from an employer perspective?

Re: U.S. Rules Apple Illegally Interrogated Staff and Confiscated Union Flyers

#163

Post by LargeWu »

baq wrote: post #114
pashsoft wrote: post #103

It seems like most of the "union problems" in the US arise from workers clashing with overly-greedy, abusive employers. The employer generally has more power in this relationship, and uses that power to squeeze every last bit of value out of their workforce. The workforce has few ways to push back against this, with unions being one of the options. Maybe if other options were on the table, there would be fewer union…

employers have HR, employees have unions. HR is corporate police. employers hate the idea of having employee police.

Most employees in the US do not in fact have unions. Only about 10% of US workers are unionized, partly because of their employers' attempts to prevent that.

Re: U.S. Rules Apple Illegally Interrogated Staff and Confiscated Union Flyers

#164

Post by mogiddy55 »

pashsoft wrote: post #103

It seems like most of the "union problems" in the US arise from workers clashing with overly-greedy, abusive employers. The employer generally has more power in this relationship, and uses that power to squeeze every last bit of value out of their workforce. The workforce has few ways to push back against this, with unions being one of the options. Maybe if other options were on the table, there would be fewer union…

The corporations are the only ones that can pay the salaries being requested by labor activists though. IMO, a lot of the agitation for higher wages as a universal right has a negative effect on smaller businesses, while the corporations (which are the actual targets) have an easier time adapting to changes in federal and state law, for example by compensating with foreign revenue.

I can't imagine it makes starting a new small business any easier when you're required to pay employees $20/hr. Think about how many startups are designed from the ground up for corporate acquisition, almost like a fire-and-forget model never intended to scale.

I'd like to think unions and labor reformers consider such things, but to be honest it's probably tertiary at best.

Re: U.S. Rules Apple Illegally Interrogated Staff and Confiscated Union Flyers

#165

Post by UncleMeat »

ExoticPearTree wrote: post #28
jollofricepeas wrote: post #7

I don’t understand how so many HNers are anti-union and anti-collective bargaining. The fact that corporations and billionaires are so anti-union and engage in regular conduct like this demonstrates that unions are pro-worker and ideal for the balance needed in the US and across the globe. Balance is key between workers and owners. Without it we are left with growing wealth inequality such as… - ridiculous housing pr…

> I don’t understand how so many HNers are anti-union and anti-collective bargaining. I had the displeasure of working with union labor in the US, they would come in at 7 (who does that) and leave at 4 on the dot. Then worked with non-union labor: cheaper, worked as much as possible per day, got the job done faster. Money-wise it was less than union labor. Now tell me how is good for me, as a company that needs stuff…

Oh no. Working a nine hour day. The horror.

Re: U.S. Rules Apple Illegally Interrogated Staff and Confiscated Union Flyers

#166

Post by Reptur »

bell-cot wrote: post #95
Stranger43 wrote: post #22

I wonder why US companies keep pulling stunts like this despite the data showing little negative impact of unionization to overall productivity nor company survival. It looks to be a purely dogmatic ego trip where somehow blind loyalty is demanded even when it's not actually necessary.

Read up on primate behavior. Top executives are alpha males, and didn't get there without lots of compulsive control-seeking, dominance-asserting, etc. behavior patterns.

Except the concept of “alpha male” was debunked.

Re: U.S. Rules Apple Illegally Interrogated Staff and Confiscated Union Flyers

#167

Post by Spivak »

mogiddy55 wrote: post #164
pashsoft wrote: post #103

It seems like most of the "union problems" in the US arise from workers clashing with overly-greedy, abusive employers. The employer generally has more power in this relationship, and uses that power to squeeze every last bit of value out of their workforce. The workforce has few ways to push back against this, with unions being one of the options. Maybe if other options were on the table, there would be fewer union…

The corporations are the only ones that can pay the salaries being requested by labor activists though. IMO, a lot of the agitation for higher wages as a universal right has a negative effect on smaller businesses, while the corporations (which are the actual targets) have an easier time adapting to changes in federal and state law, for example by compensating with foreign revenue. I can't imagine it makes starting a…

That's $40k (gross) a year assuming the job is full time, which it won't be. Unless you're living in an extremely low CoL area that's a meager existence that pays for rent, food, bills, health insurance and not much else. You might be able to afford a house someday at that wage.

Where else would you put the minimum if not "scraping by?" If businesses literally can't afford it then maybe government should step in and pay the difference.

Re: U.S. Rules Apple Illegally Interrogated Staff and Confiscated Union Flyers

#168

Post by vharuck »

thequux wrote: post #37
jollofricepeas wrote: post #7

I don’t understand how so many HNers are anti-union and anti-collective bargaining. The fact that corporations and billionaires are so anti-union and engage in regular conduct like this demonstrates that unions are pro-worker and ideal for the balance needed in the US and across the globe. Balance is key between workers and owners. Without it we are left with growing wealth inequality such as… - ridiculous housing pr…

I think unions are great! I'm even a member of one, and have been known to encourage everybody else around me to unionize. Notably, though, I love in Belgium. The American implementation of unions, on the other hand, is not great. While in the US, I've run into rules like not being allowed to plug something in because only union electricians are allowed to do that, and that's just one example among many. Police union…

>While in the US, I've run into rules like not being allowed to plug something in because only union electricians are allowed to do that, and that's just one example among many.

I obviously don't know anything about the particular union you're talking about. But rules like this are often written to close a loophole. For example, the union negotiates higher wages for their electricians. After the deal is signed, the company hires more office secretaries, reassigns to them most tasks that used to be done by electricians, and fires a bunch of electricians because there's "not enough work."

Re: U.S. Rules Apple Illegally Interrogated Staff and Confiscated Union Flyers

#169

Post by lmm »

FpUser wrote: post #143

I am not sure how they can "interrogate" stuff. Can't they be simply told to go fuck themselves and do not stick their nose where it does not belong?

> Can't they be simply told to go fuck themselves and do not stick their nose where it does not belong?

If you live in a country where corporations are subject to the rule of law, sure.

Re: U.S. Rules Apple Illegally Interrogated Staff and Confiscated Union Flyers

#170

Post by Hikikomori »

ExoticPearTree wrote: post #87
ok_dad wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Have you ever researched the difference between the companies, the workers, how satisfied they are, how much they are paid, and why it was a quarter cheaper? You keep saying how the union affected you for your two projects, and how the union was the bad guys because you had to spend more time and money. Did you ever think that perhaps the workers at the union company could have been secure in their jobs, happy with t…

You do know that you can switch jobs if you don't like the one you're in at the moment, right? And it is not my problem with how much someone if paid, really. I put out a request for work, companies bid, the cheapest one overall wins. That's how the free market works. And sure, believe whatever you want, but getting the best deal possible is not going to be the end of the US :)

Why would it matter if they can switch jobs or not when all jobs would exploit workers the same way in your non union ideal.
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